Save yourselves?

Lämmchen said:

Let's talk about Acts 2 where Peter says "Save yourselves".

Is Peter really saying that they had a role in their salvation? Here's the text:

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

So we see that Peter isn't saying "Save yourselves" but he's saying "“Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” What does that mean?

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Saint Peter is saying "save yourselves" he has to say that in order to say "save yourselves from this corrupt generation". It's part of the sentence. It can't be avoided. "from this corrupt generation" is what saint Peter urges his listeners to save themselves from. I do not see how this can be made into an argument against a person participating in their own salvation. Besides saint Paul says "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for God is at work in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:12-13) which gives readers good reason to press on in their own efforts to be saved. It is, of course, God who at work in the faithful to cause them to work out their own salvation.

Lämmchen said:

You can't repent without God granting you that gift.

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We can't exist without God granting that gift...

Yet it is we who repent, not God, Who never repents for our sins...

But God gives fallen man the ability to repent...

And the Call of God is unto MAN doing the repenting...


Arsenios

Lämmchen said:

The cause of our salvation is NOT our repentance but Jesus' death for our sins.

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This begs the question: Whose sins did Jesus die for?
Do you see your dilemma in your statement?

Arsenios said:

We can't exist without God granting that gift...

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EXACTLY! That's what all the Lutherans have been saying to you since you came to this site.... and you are constantly argued otherwise, constantly insisted that it's the unregenerate man jumping through various hoops - he VOID of God, VOID of the Holy Spirit, VOID of spiritual life, VOID of justification.... he must be obedient and only after that is sufficient accomplished and won, THEN God wakes up and does something.

NOW you seem to get it. Yup, unregenerate man is DEAD and can't do a thing spiritually. We can't EXIST spiritually (or even physically) without God FIRST.... FIRST...... FIRST.....




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MennoSota said:

This begs the question: Whose sins did Jesus die for?

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What does God say? Read the following words. Delete none. Insert none. And you'll have your answer. Simple.



1 John 2:2

Isaiah 53:6

Luke 19:10

2 Corinthians 5:14-15

Hebrews 2:9

John 1:29

1 John 4:14

John 4:42

John 3:14-16




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Lämmchen said:

There are some translations that have it as "Be saved" instead of "save yourselves" and that makes more sense! :amen:

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It is an aorist imperative passive verb - Kind of oxymoronic to English speakers - SOTHITE -

For us, a passive imperative is not possible...

One cannot be commanded to do what another must do to or for you...

For the Greeks, it means "permit yourself" (to be saved)...

The aorist means "permit yourself now to be saved" as something you can do right now...

A present passive imperative would mean: "Be permitting yourself to be saved" as an ongoing activity...

The implication is that they CAN permit themselves to be saved...

And that if they do not do so, they will remain a part of the lost generation of "untowards"...

Hence grammatically, it places the decision not on God but on the person so permitting him or her self...


Arsenios

Lämmchen said:

The cause of our salvation is NOT our repentance but Jesus' death for our sins.

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The CAUSE of our Salvation is God...

Do you really think Christ HAD TO DIE for our Salvation?

Do you really think that God was UNABLE to save us without sacrificing His Son?

Christ embraced His Passion for our sakes...

And WE are Baptized into HIS Death on the Cross...


Arsenios

Josiah said:

EXACTLY! That's what all the Lutherans have been saying to you since you came to this site.... and you are constantly argued otherwise, constantly insisted that it's the unregenerate man jumping through various hoops - he VOID of God, VOID of the Holy Spirit, VOID of spiritual life, VOID of justification.... he must be obedient and only after that is sufficient accomplished and won, THEN God wakes up and does something.

NOW you seem to get it. Yup, unregenerate man is DEAD and can't do a thing spiritually. We can't EXIST spiritually (or even physically) without God FIRST.... FIRST...... FIRST.....
.

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You accuse falsely...

Not to mention ungrammatically, mind you!


Arsenios

Josiah said:

EXACTLY! That's what all the Lutherans have been saying to you since you came to this site....

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Is this a Lutheran site?

I mean, if you need to argue for our existence being by God's Grace, you are in the really really shallow end of the wading pool...

and you are constantly argued otherwise,

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Never not even one time ever...

Why accuse me without even citing the words I use?

Are we making a b-movie or something here?

constantly insisted that it's the unregenerate man jumping through various hoops -
he VOID of God, VOID of the Holy Spirit, VOID of spiritual life, VOID of justification....

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You are the only one arguing un-Biblically that fallen man is void of God...

I argue that he has both Good and evil because of the fruit which killed him from his prior state of no evil...

he must be obedient and only after that is sufficient accomplished and won,
THEN God wakes up and does something.

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Actually God is active from before birth to after death in the whole of the process of, dare I say, Reclamation?
God Foreknows...
God Calls to repentance...
God Justifies those Called...
God Glorifies those Justified...

I have argued all this from the beginning...

I agree, the straw man of your fantasy is a dead-goner!

NOW you seem to get it.

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I have not changed my understanding at all...

Yup, unregenerate man is DEAD and can't do a thing spiritually.

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You accuse fallen man of being a Lazarusiophorean corpse...

That is false and un-Biblical...

We can't EXIST spiritually (or even physically) without God FIRST.... FIRST...... FIRST.....
.

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Existence is solely by God's Grace...

You are denying we have any at all after the Fall of Adam...

That denial is untrue and un-Biblical...

Quid, Erat, Splat!


Arsenios

Lämmchen said:

There are some translations that have it as "Be saved" instead of "save yourselves" and that makes more sense! :amen:

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It may make "more sense" to you but it is not what saint Peter said. He said "save yourselves".

Lämmchen said:

You must not have read the part where I said that some translations state it as "Be saved". Not all say "Save yourselves".

Here's another "be saved"...not save yourself from Acts 16:29-31 and notice how he doesn't say do good works and then you can save yourself:

Calling for lights, the jailer rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household.”…

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There is one version that I have that says "be saved" in Acts 2:40 and it is the NASB. All the others that I have to hand say "save yourselves" and the Greek says "σώθητε ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς τῆς σκολιᾶς ταύτης." The underlined words mean (in English) "Be you (plural) saved from" which is commonly translated "save yourselves from" but there's no implication that in saving themselves from this wicked generation that they save themselves without reference to Christ and without the grace of God. Nevertheless the verse does say "save yourselves".

Arsenios said:

It is an aorist imperative passive verb - Kind of oxymoronic to English speakers - SOTHITE -

For us, a passive imperative is not possible...

One cannot be commanded to do what another must do to or for you...

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Correct.

Passive = passive. Saved = saved.

The aorist means "permit yourself now to be saved" as something you can do right now...

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If one is saved, then they have been saved. If one achieves what is desired, then they have not been saved.

Yes... there is a sense in which we "will" it.... but how is our will changed to that? Lutherans leave that issue as mystery, but we reject the idea that FIRST the dead, atheistic, enemy of God who denies he has offended God, denies he needs anything from God.... who has no faith, no Holy Spirit.... where God is absolutely absent, silent and still.... all on his own... changes his will.... adequately performs a good work... and THEN God enters the picture and being just simply does as justice demands: reward him accordingly (meaning there is no salvation, their is no Savior, there is no mercy, there is no grace).

The implication is that they CAN permit themselves to be saved...

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If we CAN... then we don't need SAVING. I think the very issue of SAVING renders your imposed theory wrong. It doesn't say, "Permit yourself to do what you must and thus won't need saving."

Hence grammatically, it places the decision not on God but on the person so permitting him or her self...

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No. At MOST, it means our will is changed. I find it more biblical (and likely and in accord with the Councils) that God saves us.... that may well include changing our will but it's still GOD SAVING.

I agree with your earlier post: Dead men can't do anything absolutely void of God.... we cannot breathe, we cannot ANYTHING without God.... thus your whole theology that we can adequately perform the good work that achieves Heaven entirely void of God as.... well...... absurd. And of course, destroys the Gospel and the central point of Christianity.






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Josiah said:

we reject the idea that FIRST the dead, atheistic, enemy of God who denies he has offended God, denies he needs anything from God.... who has no faith, no Holy Spirit.... where God is absolutely absent, silent and still.... all on his own... changes his will.... adequately performs a good work... and THEN God enters the picture and being just simply does as justice demands: reward him accordingly (meaning there is no salvation, their is no Savior, there is no mercy, there is no grace).

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I thank God that not one person on earth believes what you reject above...

It doesn't say, "Permit yourself to do what you must and thus won't need saving."

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It says "Be you SAVED from this perverse generation" by believing and being Baptized into Christ...

Some did so, and some did not...

Some were saved, and some were not...

NOBODY saved themselves...

I agree with your earlier post: Dead men can't do anything absolutely void of God.... we cannot breathe, we cannot ANYTHING without God....

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We cannot even sin without God, us cold dead corpses you love to condemn...

thus your whole theology that we can adequately perform the good work that achieves Heaven entirely void of God
.

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That has absolutely nothing to do with ANY understanding I have offered here...

It is merely YOUR baseless PRESUMPTION...

Your absolute presupposition of the teaching of the Ancient Faith that gave you your Bible...

And it is false...

And you keep accusing...

The very term devil means to accuse, are you aware??

The opposite of accusation is forgiveness...

Accusation precludes forgiveness...


Arsenios