Save yourselves?

Lamb · Jan 21, 2019

Let's talk about Acts 2 where Peter says "Save yourselves".

Is Peter really saying that they had a role in their salvation? Here's the text:

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

So we see that Peter isn't saying "Save yourselves" but he's saying "“Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” What does that mean?

MennoSota · Jan 21, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Let's talk about Acts 2 where Peter says "Save yourselves".

Is Peter really saying that they had a role in their salvation? Here's the text:

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

So we see that Peter isn't saying "Save yourselves" but he's saying "“Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” What does that mean?

It means that Peter is pleading with people to respond to the gospel message.
On that day, God had chosen 5000 to be reconciled (saved). The effect of God's work is that they believed and were saved.

Andrew · Jan 21, 2019

It means what it says I suppose, they did crucify him as Peter says, that generations corruption was to the point of killing the Messiah... To repent is to reconsider, look inward and realize that you are a sinner and to allow conviction to come in to steer you out of that sinful nature... so by repenting and being baptised in Christ they were not only being saved from damnation in the world to come but they would likewise benefit in the transformation of that generation.

Arsenios · Jan 22, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Let's talk about Acts 2 where Peter says "Save yourselves".

Indeed!

Is Peter really saying that they had a role in their salvation?

Let's see what he tells them to do:

Here's the text:

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

They asked what they could do to be saved...
Peter answered: "Repent and be Baptized"...

Those who obeyed the Gospel, who repented and received Baptism into Christ, were saved...
Those who did not were not...

They did not save themselves...
And they did save themselves...

Receiving Baptism is hardly saving yourself...
Because you cannot baptize yourself into Christ...

Yet Christ IS the Door of Salvation...
We enter through Him...
He it is Who enters US into Himself...
No man can do so...

But Christ does so through the hands of His Body...
The hands-off the Servants of that Body...
When the Ekklesia Baptizes you into Christ...
It is Christ Himself Baptizing you into Himself...

Only Christ CAN Baptise into Himself...
As Scripture affirms:

Joh 1:33
And I knew Him not:
but He that sent me to baptize IN water,
the same said unto me,
Upon Whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him,
that One is He Who is Baptizing IN the Holy Spirit.

So Who is it Who is Baptizing IN the Holy Spirit and not merely in water?

It is Christ who was Baptized by John in the Jordan River...

So we see that Peter isn't saying "Save yourselves"
but he's saying "“Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.”
What does that mean?

The corrupt generation is not being saved...
You in it CAN BE SAVED...
IF...
You repent and are Baptized in the Holy Spirit by Christ through His Servants in the Ekklesia.

And indeed this is exactly what happened...

Arsenios

Andrew · Jan 24, 2019

but God I believe in free will so im not going to do any works such as repenting or baptising and all that, can you just give me some faith for me? :/

Lamb · Jan 24, 2019

Arsenios said:
Indeed!

Let's see what he tells them to do:

They asked what they could do to be saved...
Peter answered: "Repent and be Baptized"...

Those who obeyed the Gospel, who repented and received Baptism into Christ, were saved...
Those who did not were not...

They did not save themselves...
And they did save themselves...

Receiving Baptism is hardly saving yourself...
Because you cannot baptize yourself into Christ...

Yet Christ IS the Door of Salvation...
We enter through Him...
He it is Who enters US into Himself...
No man can do so...

But Christ does so through the hands of His Body...
The hands-off the Servants of that Body...
When the Ekklesia Baptizes you into Christ...
It is Christ Himself Baptizing you into Himself...

Only Christ CAN Baptise into Himself...
As Scripture affirms:

Joh 1:33
And I knew Him not:
but He that sent me to baptize IN water,
the same said unto me,
Upon Whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him,
that One is He Who is Baptizing IN the Holy Spirit.

So Who is it Who is Baptizing IN the Holy Spirit and not merely in water?

It is Christ who was Baptized by John in the Jordan River...

The corrupt generation is not being saved...
You in it CAN BE SAVED...
IF...
You repent and are Baptized in the Holy Spirit by Christ through His Servants in the Ekklesia.

And indeed this is exactly what happened...

Arsenios

Here's the text:

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

"When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart "

Oh look. Sign of faith.

Arsenios · Jan 25, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Here's the text:

"When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart "

Oh look. [A] Sign of faith.

It sure was a start toward the Faith...

Being cut to the heart shows belief...

And then they obeyed out of that belief...

It is their obedience that is according to the Faith...

And not mere belief...

They repented and were Baptized into Christ by Christ at the hands of His Servants...

Because they obeyed Peter...

Arsenios

Lamb · Jan 25, 2019

Arsenios said:
It sure was a start toward the Faith...

Being cut to the heart shows belief...

And then they obeyed out of that belief...

It is their obedience that is according to the Faith...

And not mere belief...

They repented and were Baptized into Christ by Christ at the hands of His Servants...

Because they obeyed Peter...

Arsenios

Is it the amount of faith...or that there IS faith that saves? Somehow you're insisting that the response is what is faith but the text already showed that there was faith as I pointed out to you.

Josiah · Jan 25, 2019

It's not the quality or quantity of faith that matters.... it's the OBJECT of faith that matters.

In justification, what matters is that our faith is apprehending/embracing/trusting/relying on CHRIST. Alone. For there is no other name under heaven by which any are saved (including our own), there is no other Savior, Jesus is the Savior.

Now, if one desired to hi-jack the thread and change the topic to discispleship, then we have a different issue. But I think that's a rule violation and usually just confuses things.

Lamb · Jan 25, 2019

Josiah said:
It's not the quality or quantity of faith that matters.... it's the OBJECT of faith that matters.

In justification, what matters is that our faith is apprehending/embracing/trusting/relying on CHRIST. Alone. For there is no other name under heaven by which any are saved (including our own), there is no other Savior, Jesus is the Savior.

Now, if one desired to hi-jack the thread and change the topic to discispleship, then we have a different issue. But I think that's a rule violation and usually just confuses things.

Exactly!! We can't save ourselves but God can save us.

Arsenios · Jan 25, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Is it the amount of faith...
or
that there IS faith that saves?

Somehow you're insisting that the response is what is faith
but
the text already showed that there was faith as I pointed out to you.

The Faith of Christ is begun in initial repentance from dead works...
It grows in maturity across a lifetime...
It is perfected in the mature in the Faith...
It is not given full blown and perfected...

The perfecting of the Faith of Christ within one's own soul takes patience and long-suffering...
It is the great Work of the soul in its ascent to God...
Faith is a Work...

An ongoing work...
In which we are to persevere to the end...
In order that we shall be saved...

Faith in the person is progressive...
As James 2:22 clearly shows, by works is faith perfected...
Immature faith is but a beginning...
We are not saved by Faith...
We are saved by means of Faith...
We are saved by Grace...
Through the Faith...
The Faith of Christ...

It is the Way of Christ...
For the Just shall live by Faith...

Arsenios

Andrew · Jan 25, 2019

Arsenios said:
The Faith of Christ is begun in initial repentance from dead works...
It grows in maturity across a lifetime...
It is perfected in the mature in the Faith...
It is not given full blown and perfected...

The perfecting of the Faith of Christ within one's own soul takes patience and long-suffering...
It is the great Work of the soul in its ascent to God...
Faith is a Work...

An ongoing work...
In which we are to persevere to the end...
In order that we shall be saved...

Faith in the person is progressive...
As James 2:22 clearly shows, by works is faith perfected...
Immature faith is but a beginning...
We are not saved by Faith...
We are saved by means of Faith...
We are saved by Grace...
Through the Faith...
The Faith of Christ...

It is the Way of Christ...
For the Just shall live by Faith...

Arsenios

Amen brother! Thats true!

Arsenios · Jan 25, 2019

Andrew said:
Amen brother! Thats true!

The Christian Faith is a God-Quest by man...

We are Saved by God, by God's Grace...

God's Grace is God Himself as Creator of creation...

The Marriage of the Lamb is God giving to man Union with Himself...

As Paul writes of those Justified: "These also He Glorified."

Because when man is One with God, he is Glorified...

Those men and women are rare folks...

They do exist in every generation...

Arsenios

Lamb · Jan 26, 2019

Arsenios said:
The Faith of Christ is begun in initial repentance from dead works...
It grows in maturity across a lifetime...
It is perfected in the mature in the Faith...
It is not given full blown and perfected...

The perfecting of the Faith of Christ within one's own soul takes patience and long-suffering...
It is the great Work of the soul in its ascent to God...
Faith is a Work...

An ongoing work...
In which we are to persevere to the end...
In order that we shall be saved...

Faith in the person is progressive...
As James 2:22 clearly shows, by works is faith perfected...
Immature faith is but a beginning...
We are not saved by Faith...
We are saved by means of Faith...
We are saved by Grace...
Through the Faith...
The Faith of Christ...

It is the Way of Christ...
For the Just shall live by Faith...

Arsenios

Repentance doesn't happen until God first does ___fill in blank___ That's how it goes. Repentance begins with God giving us His Law and then He gives His Gospel so that we turn to Him in repentance. If we don't turn to Him, it's not repentance. It's God's Word that works in us...but accusing us of our sins and then giving us the joy of the Gospel message that brings us to new life. God is the one at work saving us...especially by bringing us to repentance.

The perfecting of faith...Jesus is the author and perfecter. You've heard that verse before?

Whose job is it to have us do good works and bear fruit? The Holy Spirit. He is the one who has us do the good works planned for us.

So you see, how the trinity is in full force in our salvation?

TurtleHare · Jan 26, 2019

Arsenios said:
The Christian Faith is a God-Quest by man...

We are Saved by God, by God's Grace...

God's Grace is God Himself as Creator of creation...

The Marriage of the Lamb is God giving to man Union with Himself...

As Paul writes of those Justified: "These also He Glorified."

Because when man is One with God, he is Glorified...

Those men and women are rare folks...

They do exist in every generation...

Arsenios

How do you mean God-quest by man, do you mean God is questing or is it man who is questing?

Arsenios · Jan 26, 2019

TurtleHare said:
How do you mean God-quest by man, do you mean God is questing or is it man who is questing?

Yes...

And God won't marry you unless you are in love with Him...

He is ever proving His Love for us...

We are ever seeking His proof...

We need to love God more than to be loved by man...

More than we love man...

More than we love creation...

"IF you love Me keep My Commandments..."

Love is obedience...

Christ would not have said this if we were unable to NOT keep His Commandments...

Arsenios

Arsenios · Jan 26, 2019

Lämmchen said:
Repentance doesn't happen until God first does....

God has never repented...

That's how it goes.

Rom 8:30
Moreover whom he did fore-ordain,
them He also Called:
and whom He Called,
them He also Justified:
and whom He Justified,
them he also Glorified.

Repentance begins with God giving us His Law
and then He gives His Gospel
so that we turn to Him in repentance.
If we don't turn to Him, it's not repentance.

God calls us to repentance, yes?
He is not calling the righteous...
He is calling sinners to repentance from sin...

It's God's Word that works in us...
but accusing us of our sins and then
giving us the joy of the Gospel message
that brings us to new life.
God is the one at work saving us...

There is the truth that ALL good is of God...
So you are right in that sense...
And the Call of God is unto amendment of life...
But IF YOU do not obey that call...
God will not repent FOR YOU...

I have Native American friends who go on Spirit Quests, who stake out a blanket in a wild place and stay there praying to the Great Spirit with no food or water until they are given a vision in response and reply to their quest... So they ask me what Christians do for spiritual growth... And I answer them that Christian monastics enter into a 24/7/365/6 Spirit Quest living their entire lives in deprivation and hardship, that they should become friends with the Creator of all creation... And that this friendship with God develops into a Union with Him that works all manner of Good on this earth...

A fairly common-denominator response is an awe-filled: "No way!"

especially by bringing us to repentance.

Yes, God Calls us to repentance...

He does not repent for us...

The perfecting of faith...
Jesus is the author and perfecter.
You've heard that verse before?

Yes - And he will neither Author nor Perfect the unrepentant...
Overcoming sin is what fallen man can do...
Healing the infirmity of soul that results in our sinning...
This is something only God can do...

And sometimes He does...
And sometimes we need the desire to sin...
Lest we take credit for what only God can do...
So sometimes He does not...

Whose job is it to have us do good works and bear fruit?

God's...

And it is our job to live lives in repentance from sin and overcoming sin...

The Holy Spirit. He is the one who has us do the good works planned for us.

When it comes to Spiritual Gifts, it is God Who does them...

When it comes to overcoming sin, it is our responsibility...

So you see, how the trinity is in full force in our salvation?

I sometimes think God is fixing us as a child might fix his tinker-toys...

So yes, the Holy Trinity - But Full-Force? Naaagggghhhhh!

We couldn't take it...

The three fell on the ground - Paul went down just with a little visit from Christ and went blind...

They have most Power held from us...

Arsenios

Lamb · Jan 26, 2019

Arsenios said:
God has never repented...

Rom 8:30
Moreover whom he did fore-ordain,
them He also Called:
and whom He Called,
them He also Justified:
and whom He Justified,
them he also Glorified.

God calls us to repentance, yes?
He is not calling the righteous...
He is calling sinners to repentance from sin...

There is the truth that ALL good is of God...
So you are right in that sense...
And the Call of God is unto amendment of life...
But IF YOU do not obey that call...
God will not repent FOR YOU...

I have Native American friends who go on Spirit Quests, who stake out a blanket in a wild place and stay there praying to the Great Spirit with no food or water until they are given a vision in response and reply to their quest... So they ask me what Christians do for spiritual growth... And I answer them that Christian monastics enter into a 24/7/365/6 Spirit Quest living their entire lives in deprivation and hardship, that they should become friends with the Creator of all creation... And that this friendship with God develops into a Union with Him that works all manner of Good on this earth...

A fairly common-denominator response is an awe-filled: "No way!"

Yes, God Calls us to repentance...

He does not repent for us...

Yes - And he will neither Author nor Perfect the unrepentant...
Overcoming sin is what fallen man can do...
Healing the infirmity of soul that results in our sinning...
This is something only God can do...

And sometimes He does...
And sometimes we need the desire to sin...
Lest we take credit for what only God can do...
So sometimes He does not...

God's...

And it is our job to live lives in repentance from sin and overcoming sin...

When it comes to Spiritual Gifts, it is God Who does them...

When it comes to overcoming sin, it is our responsibility...

I sometimes think God is fixing us as a child might fix his tinker-toys...

So yes, the Holy Trinity - But Full-Force? Naaagggghhhhh!

We couldn't take it...

The three fell on the ground - Paul went down just with a little visit from Christ and went blind...

They have most Power held from us...

Arsenios

My post should have said "until God does ___" but I did the leader dots instead of the underscore. Does that make more sense? I did not intend for the readers to think I was saying God repents.

You say God does not call the righteous but sinners yet the man praying before God who was righteous (by faith) said, God, be merciful to me, a sinner.

You can try to live as perfect a life as you can, Arsenios, but that will never earn you heaven. Jesus paved the way for you to go to heaven, trust Him, not yourself.

Arsenios · Jan 26, 2019

Lämmchen said:
My post should have said "until God does ___" but I did the leader dots instead of the underscore. Does that make more sense? I did not intend for the readers to think I was saying God repents.

You say God does not call the righteous but sinners yet the man praying before God who was righteous (by faith) said, God, be merciful to me, a sinner.

You can try to live as perfect a life as you can, Arsenios, but that will never earn you heaven. Jesus paved the way for you to go to heaven, trust Him, not yourself.

Great reply...

Heaven is gained by obedience to its King...
It is not earned, you are right...
But it IS gained through repentance...

You repent...
God Sanctifies...

YOU cannot Sanctify...
God does not repent... (as you wisely clarified)

Arsenios

Lamb · Jan 26, 2019

Arsenios said:
Great reply...

Heaven is gained by obedience to its King...
It is not earned, you are right...
But it IS gained through repentance...

You repent...
God Sanctifies...

YOU cannot Sanctify...
God does not repent... (as you wisely clarified)

Arsenios

You can't repent without God granting you that gift.

Save yourselves?

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