Half of Pastors had another career before ministry

NewCreation435

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"Most pastors first felt a calling to ministry in their teen or early adult years, but that doesn’t mean they took a fast track to the clergy. More than half (55%) had another career before going into ministry. Roughly one-quarter (26%) remains bivocational, currently holding some other kind of (paid or unpaid) role in addition to pastoring, usually for non-financial motivations like personal fulfillment or having other outlets for their gifts.

Though over one-third of pastors (36%) admits occasionally wishing for another calling, responses suggest that ministry suits these leaders well. A majority feels content (72%) and is very satisfied with their opportunity to use their spiritual gifts (81%) or talents (77%) as a pastor. Sixty-two percent are very confident in the preparation they are receiving for their future. They also think their educational background—including seminary, for three-quarters of pastors (76%)—is a good fit for their role (78%). Nearly two-thirds (64%) see at least a possibility of pursuing additional education, including one-third (33%) who is already doing so"

the above is from an article from barna at this web site
https://www.barna.com/research/half-pastors-prior-career/

Do these numbers suprise you? I'm glad it says that most feel content. I have heard other numbers that suggest that many are not
 

tango

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Always hard to know what to make of statistics like this, especially when they measure things that are so very subjective. Between the inherent bias in anything that involves self-reporting, a potential to skew answers to make a point or be guided by a leading question, not to mention the possibility for self-selection skewing results, it can be difficult to know.

If the numbers are accurate they are encouraging. I'm not surprised at the idea of ministers have a previous or second vocation. If anything I'd be a little wary of a minister who went from school to seminary to the pulpit - sometimes I think people need to experience a bit of life before a career like that. I think of it in a loosely similar manner to the career politician - if someone goes through school to an internship to politics they lack experience of the real world.

I do find it interesting when a pastor has a second vocation. It seems like they would struggle to do a lot of the pastoral stuff if they have to fit it in around a second career.
 

MennoSota

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The pastorate in the US has become a professional career. This phenomenon is unknown in scripture. In scripture teaching elders were mentored within a church and then appointed after showing they met the standards of an elder. No doubt these person's had jobs outside of the church before they were commissioned by the church.
Today, you pay for your own education to get your master's degree and then you candidate at a church that has no idea who you are. They try to ask a few in the interview and call up the folks who the candidate says can vouch for them. Then the board makes a rather uninformed choice, hoping the candidate will turn out to be good, without really knowing what they are actually getting.
 

Lamb

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"Sixty-two percent are very confident in the preparation they are receiving for their future."

This part confuses me. Shouldn't they feel confident that God is preparing them?
 

psalms 91

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Like he said some view this as simply a job. Sad but true, I have met a few like that
 

NewCreation435

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Always hard to know what to make of statistics like this, especially when they measure things that are so very subjective. Between the inherent bias in anything that involves self-reporting, a potential to skew answers to make a point or be guided by a leading question, not to mention the possibility for self-selection skewing results, it can be difficult to know.

If the numbers are accurate they are encouraging. I'm not surprised at the idea of ministers have a previous or second vocation. If anything I'd be a little wary of a minister who went from school to seminary to the pulpit - sometimes I think people need to experience a bit of life before a career like that. I think of it in a loosely similar manner to the career politician - if someone goes through school to an internship to politics they lack experience of the real world.

I do find it interesting when a pastor has a second vocation. It seems like they would struggle to do a lot of the pastoral stuff if they have to fit it in around a second career.

Many pastors don't have much of a choice about it because their church is so small they can't support financially a pastor full time.
 

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Josiah

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Some thoughts...


1. Right or wrong (another issue for another thread), the office of pastor has become a full time professional thing. It has been so in the West for over 1000 years now. This may well change in the near future, but it IS the case.


2. We expect our pastors to be highly trained: Four years of college plus four years of seminary. My pastor has a doctorate degree. And this is very specialized education, not EASILY transferable to some other profession. We want a HIGHLY trained pastor.... SPECIFICALLTY trained for ONE profession.


3. We expect our pastors to always be available. For meetings, for Bible studies, for ministries... and certainly for worship. Only in the smallest of parishes is there a concept that the pastor might have some OTHER job that means he can't lead some ministry, can't attend some meeting, isn't available for a counseling... that the church must work AROUND the pastor's OTHER job.


4. Therefore, we really have no option but to pay him accordingly. In the District I live in, my denomination sets the min. starting salary for a pastor at $90,000.00. Not at all unreasonable for a full time, highly trained professional - of which MUCH is expected. I serve at a small church and we're at that salary but he has over 30 years of experience so we are actually underpaying him (and we know it).


5. IF a church needs or wants to pay their pastor less, IMO they have two options: A. Ask and expect him to serve LESS (say 20 hours per week) and then work around his other job. B. Share a pastor with a neighboring church of the same denomination. Both of these options are rapidly increasing.


6. In the LCMS, some decades ago, we embraced the office of deacon. This means VERY different things in different denominations, but in the LCMS, it means a man who is NOT ordained (and not a seminary grad) but who has been trained and who serves UNDER a pastor..... with direct pastoral supervision, he may preach and administer the Sacrament; he literally can do everything a Pastor does - but UNDER the direct, active supervision of a pastor. In my district, a lot of small congregations that simply cannot afford a pastor are being served by deacons (usually 2 or 3 working together) - directly under the supervision of a neighboring pastor (or rarely a retired pastor in that parish). Usually, these deacons are paid nothing or just expenses but sometimes there is a low salary or maybe their health insurance is paid for. BUT, our president is on the warpath against this and no one knows the future of this is very uncertain. I'm in training for this. I've completed the 10 courses requried and passed all the examinations..... but I need some years of on site experience and I'm still working on that, so I'm not yet certified. I have preached (writing the sermon all out and getting the pastor's okay on it before I preached it) but not yet consecrated the Sacrament. In MY case, coming in when I did, I'll likely never be able to serve anywhere except in my own parish but again, it's all up in the air right now. IMO, we need to come up with options for ministers who are not classic sole full time pastors with doctorates. The deacon options (raising up young man IN THE PARISH trained mostly by neighboring pastors and with "on the job" training) is a good option to the 4 years of seminary - but that's just my opinion (biased, I admit).




.
 

tango

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Lots of good points there Josiah - if a church wants the pastor to be highly trained and available full-time they have to be willing to pay for it. Most people can't fund a seminary course and then work without getting an income. I think my pastor's average weekly hours over the last year were just shy of 60. So effectively he's working one and a half full-time jobs at the church. I don't know what his salary is.

It is interesting to see the increasing expectations that a minister will have spent so many years in the sausage machine jumping through hoops. I'm not sure I'm entirely comfortable with the idea of a minister who has no training at all - I briefly attended a church run by just such a man and it was disconcerting when I asked about Scriptural support for things and got nothing back at all - but if the gospel was a message understandable by first century farmers and fishermen I have to wonder why it now requires so much formal study.
 

Albion

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If God had been content to give us only the red parts of the four gospels, I figure he would not have revealed everything else that we believe to be divine revelation, inspired writings, the Bible. But since he has, it follows that he intends for it to benefit and guide us. And it was only the very first Christians who knew only the basics. The Apostles were advising the churches throughout that period, although only later were their writings gathered together for us.
 

tango

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If God had been content to give us only the red parts of the four gospels, I figure he would not have revealed everything else that we believe to be divine revelation, inspired writings, the Bible. But since he has, it follows that he intends for it to benefit and guide us. And it was only the very first Christians who knew only the basics. The Apostles were advising the churches throughout that period, although only later were their writings gathered together for us.

Sure, we have more than the disciples had. But if the message of salvation was something that can be understood by a first century fisherman, did the message become more complex over the years or did we dress it up to look like it was more complex?
 

NewCreation435

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Some thoughts...


1. Right or wrong (another issue for another thread), the office of pastor has become a full time professional thing. It has been so in the West for over 1000 years now. This may well change in the near future, but it IS the case.


2. We expect our pastors to be highly trained: Four years of college plus four years of seminary. My pastor has a doctorate degree. And this is very specialized education, not EASILY transferable to some other profession. We want a HIGHLY trained pastor.... SPECIFICALLTY trained for ONE profession.


3. We expect our pastors to always be available. For meetings, for Bible studies, for ministries... and certainly for worship. Only in the smallest of parishes is there a concept that the pastor might have some OTHER job that means he can't lead some ministry, can't attend some meeting, isn't available for a counseling... that the church must work AROUND the pastor's OTHER job.


4. Therefore, we really have no option but to pay him accordingly. In the District I live in, my denomination sets the min. starting salary for a pastor at $90,000.00. Not at all unreasonable for a full time, highly trained professional - of which MUCH is expected. I serve at a small church and we're at that salary but he has over 30 years of experience so we are actually underpaying him (and we know it).


5. IF a church needs or wants to pay their pastor less, IMO they have two options: A. Ask and expect him to serve LESS (say 20 hours per week) and then work around his other job. B. Share a pastor with a neighboring church of the same denomination. Both of these options are rapidly increasing.


6. In the LCMS, some decades ago, we embraced the office of deacon. This means VERY different things in different denominations, but in the LCMS, it means a man who is NOT ordained (and not a seminary grad) but who has been trained and who serves UNDER a pastor..... with direct pastoral supervision, he may preach and administer the Sacrament; he literally can do everything a Pastor does - but UNDER the direct, active supervision of a pastor. In my district, a lot of small congregations that simply cannot afford a pastor are being served by deacons (usually 2 or 3 working together) - directly under the supervision of a neighboring pastor (or rarely a retired pastor in that parish). Usually, these deacons are paid nothing or just expenses but sometimes there is a low salary or maybe their health insurance is paid for. BUT, our president is on the warpath against this and no one knows the future of this is very uncertain. I'm in training for this. I've completed the 10 courses requried and passed all the examinations..... but I need some years of on site experience and I'm still working on that, so I'm not yet certified. I have preached (writing the sermon all out and getting the pastor's okay on it before I preached it) but not yet consecrated the Sacrament. In MY case, coming in when I did, I'll likely never be able to serve anywhere except in my own parish but again, it's all up in the air right now. IMO, we need to come up with options for ministers who are not classic sole full time pastors with doctorates. The deacon options (raising up young man IN THE PARISH trained mostly by neighboring pastors and with "on the job" training) is a good option to the 4 years of seminary - but that's just my opinion (biased, I admit).




.

When you said that it isn't easily transferable that made me think of when I left the church ministry in 2006 to pursue other options. I really didn't think I had many other options because the education I had was so specialized. It kept me from leaving earlier than I did because I felt like I was stuck where I was. But, there are some skills that transfer to other professions. It is a helping profession where pastors wear several different hats in the church. Pastors lead committees and counseling people and deal with conflict and often many of those people and helping skills can be used in other professions.
 

tango

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When you said that it isn't easily transferable that made me think of when I left the church ministry in 2006 to pursue other options. I really didn't think I had many other options because the education I had was so specialized. It kept me from leaving earlier than I did because I felt like I was stuck where I was. But, there are some skills that transfer to other professions. It is a helping profession where pastors wear several different hats in the church. Pastors lead committees and counseling people and deal with conflict and often many of those people and helping skills can be used in other professions.

That's a really good point - the "soft skills" required in pastoring are certainly valuable in many other areas, even if the "hard skills" are not.
 

Pedrito

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==============================================================================================

I remember reading a report many years ago regarding pastoral vacancy statistics in Evangelical churches in the USA.

When looking for a pastor, rich churches would be inundated with applications stating that each applicant knew that God was calling him to that ministry. (It was “him” in those days.)

When looking for a pastor, poor churches would be scratching to get an application. Apparently all potential applicants knew that God was definitely not calling them to somewhere below their station.

In the first instance above, all but one were not telling the truth. (What? Trained pastors? Not telling the truth?)

In the second instance above, the majority were not truly open to God’s leading. (What? ...)

==============================================================================================

Isn’t subjectivity a wonderful thing? Especially in Christian environments?


==============================================================================================
 

tango

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==============================================================================================

I remember reading a report many years ago regarding pastoral vacancy statistics in Evangelical churches in the USA.

When looking for a pastor, rich churches would be inundated with applications stating that each applicant knew that God was calling him to that ministry. (It was “him” in those days.)

When looking for a pastor, poor churches would be scratching to get an application. Apparently all potential applicants knew that God was definitely not calling them to somewhere below their station.

In the first instance above, all but one were not telling the truth. (What? Trained pastors? Not telling the truth?)

In the second instance above, the majority were not truly open to God’s leading. (What? ...)

==============================================================================================

Isn’t subjectivity a wonderful thing? Especially in Christian environments?


==============================================================================================

https://babylonbee.com/news/prophetic-vision-church-includes-huge-salary-pastor
 

tango

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I know this is a satire, but the sad thing is that there really are goofballs like this out there

I've often thought that anyone who wants to be a pastor is probably not suited to be a pastor. People who want to do God's will and accept their calling to be a pastor are a different breed. I think it's safe to say it's universal that all of the best pastors I've known had to give up something to answer God's call. None of them particularly wanted to be a pastor, other than in the context that they wanted to do God's will and if that meant being a pastor then that was the path they would walk.
 

Josiah

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I've often thought that anyone who wants to be a pastor is probably not suited to be a pastor.


I was the lay delegate to our district convention last time. There were LOTS of vendors, including both of the LCMS seminaries. I don't want to be a pastor, but I was curious about the two seminaries and spoke to both men at these booths. The first mentioned that he did a lot of area meetings at churches, where people from that area could come and meet him and learn about the sem (he wanted to set up such at our church). I asked him what he looks for from guys who come and ask. And he said, "I look for men who think they can't do it."


People who want to do God's will and accept their calling to be a pastor are a different breed. I think it's safe to say it's universal that all of the best pastors I've known had to give up something to answer God's call. None of them particularly wanted to be a pastor, other than in the context that they wanted to do God's will and if that meant being a pastor then that was the path they would walk.


I so suspect.


Luther said that "humility is the basis of all good theology." I image it is of all good ministers, too.

I can't recall a single prophet or apostle who volunteered for the job. They mostly had to be arm twisted by God. Probably a good thing. Anyone who thinks they are going God a favor is probably in the wrong line of work.




.
 
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