Best way for US govt shutdown to end?

Democrats agree to negotiate, of course.

Trump to pay for the wall.

He'll get reimbursed by the Mexican government.

For Trump to swallow his pride and admit he is wrong

The question asked about the best way to end the impasse. You cannot be serious to think that the President should just cave on the wall issue when all the facts are on his side, he has already compromised plenty, and it is the most important issue to the American People.

For Pelosi et al to agree to spend a token amount (by federal budget standards) on what is but a start on building the wall, while getting DACA in return, is obviously the best way to end it.

I'm not SURE (one way or the other) about the supreme importance of a physical wall....

I DO believe we FINALLY must do something about the illegal immigration (and they voting, etc., etc., etc.). We've "kicked the can" down the road over and over and over, NEVER dealing with it, purely for political reasons. I LIKE that Trump seems to be the first person in modern history who desires to address it, I'm just not sure his "solution" is such.

I'm not philosophically opposed to "drawing a line in the sand." In fact, I rather respect him for having the _____ to do that and for trying to be maybe the first president in US history to DO what he promised he would. But I'm not sure THIS is the best "line in the sand." You gotta pick your battles very, very carefully. I think he may have picked the wrong one.

I think Trump will utlimately loose for one reason: The Press. The mainstream American press is simply the mouth of the Democrat Party. Ronald Reagan had the ability to effectively speak directly to the people and thus circumvent the Press, Trump does not.

But this I know..... ultimately, we'll gain kick the can down the road..... we'll fail to control our boarders..... And it will all be pure politics, just positioning, just playing to the audience of each, trying to stay in power.

Disgusting.

Frustrating.





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Albion said:

The question asked about the best way to end the impasse. You cannot be serious to think that the President should just cave on the wall issue when all the facts are on his side, he has already compromised plenty, and it is the most important issue to the American People.

For Pelosi et al to agree to spend a token amount (by federal budget standards) on what is but a start on building the wall, while getting DACA in return, is obviously the best way to end it.

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when he goes down to the border and they show him tunnels that would have not been stopped by an ineffective wall? and his shown evidence to the contrary that his wall would not work he still doesn't have the humility to admit he was wrong and agree to reopen the government. Instead, he will force 800,000 people to go without paychecks that have nothing to do with the wall.
He has compromised not at all. That is a big part of the problem. He has dug in and not budged at all regarding the wall. Congress doesn't have to agree to a 5 billion dollar payout of an ineffective wall. They have the right as a co equal part of the government to disagree. And I would also disagree with you about that it is the most important issue. When we are trillions of dollars in debt and have to continue to pass bills to fund the government because we don't have our financial house in order I would say the bigger issue is our financial meltdown in this country.

Josiah said:

I'm not SURE (one way or the other) about the supreme importance of a physical wall....

I DO believe we FINALLY must do something about the illegal immigration (and they voting, etc., etc., etc.). We've "kicked the can" down the road over and over and over, NEVER dealing with it, purely for political reasons. I LIKE that Trump seems to be the first person in modern history who desires to address it, I'm just not sure his "solution" is such.

I'm not philosophically opposed to "drawing a line in the sand." In fact, I rather respect him for having the _____ to do that and for trying to be maybe the first president in US history to DO what he promised he would. But I'm not sure THIS is the best "line in the sand." You gotta pick your battles very, very carefully. I think he may have picked the wrong one.

I think Trump will utlimately loose for one reason: The Press. The mainstream American press is simply the mouth of the Democrat Party. Ronald Reagan had the ability to effectively speak directly to the people and thus circumvent the Press, Trump does not.

But this I know..... ultimately, we'll gain kick the can down the road..... we'll fail to control our boarders..... And it will all be pure politics, just positioning, just playing to the audience of each, trying to stay in power.

Disgusting.

Frustrating.





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I think it will go on a little while longer and Trump will declare this a national emergency and the whole issue with go to the courts to decide then

psalms 91 said:

Impeach Trump and end this shutdown that he said was all his but now that public opinion is against him he wants to pin on the Dems.

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1. There's MUCH disinformation about "impeach." Impeachment (an issue not defined in our Constitution) comes from the HOUSE and it is ONLY a rebuke. It has been used twice, the first was PURE politics and that has been entirely rebuked. Ever since, it is upheld in Constitutional Law that there must be a felony committed by the president while in office. Thus, while FDR had great enemies in the House in his first term, they could not impeach him because there was no obvious committed felony. It COULD have happened with Nixon because he lied under oath but he resigned first. It DID happen with Clinton (for the identical reason, in his case, he admitted to the felony) and he was impeached. Again, impeachment is a slap on the hand for comitting a crime, specifically, a felony. At least that's been the opinion of Constitutional Law for over 150 years.


2. Impeachment does NOT remove a president from office. Remember: Clinton REMAINED in office after he was impeached. ONLY the Senate can remove a president. The Senate did not even take up the issue of Clinton. And since the Republicans have a good majority in the Senate, it's unlikely they would take that up even if the House did impeach him for some proven felony while in office.


3. To their own shock, the Dems and their allies in the Press have not been able to turn pulbic opinion against Trump. He is certainly the most attacked President in our history but to little avail. His popularity is similar to most at this point.... the polls show he actually has more supporters now than those who voted for him.... of those who did vote for him, almost ALL still support him (no one's mind has been changed). Those who HATE him, hate him more and are getting away with horrible things because the Press won't call them on it, but it's not changing public opinion. These clearly hope to overturn the election of 2016 but they can't find a clear felony.... and they don't want to destroy the Electoral College retroactively (even if they could). They just HATE him... with a passion... but that doesn't remove one from office. It seems he's going to seek the re-nomination of his party and then re-election. We'll see what happens. MY prediction: The Dems will nominate some hate-filled Communist extreme liberal, the most hate-filled and liberal candidate available, who will lose: giving Trump another 4 years since people will consider what they have better than the extremism of the alternative; once again it will be "Trump is bad, but the alternative is worse." We'll see. But it is how democracy works.

Impeachment is not the way to deal with a man some passionately HATE.





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...and then, as we have seen, there are people who not only have no clue about what is going on or how the Constitution works, but they just buy into whatever they saw on MSNBC or read in the Huffington Post, and the snarky-er the better.

jsimms435 said:

I think it will go on a little while longer and Trump will declare this a national emergency and the whole issue with go to the courts to decide then

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That is possible, but I am confident that he knows his action would immediately be held up by some Obama appointee of a judge, delaying for perhaps a long time any implementation of his move. In addition, it appears from the polls that this executive order is unpopular with the public even though the wall itself and border security in general is very popular with the people.

How about sacking every member of Congress and the Senate, and starting over with term limits and restrictions on how much wealth one can amass while in government. And a lifetime ban on working for lobbyists once your term is over.

Albion said:

That is possible, but I am confident that he knows his action would immediately be held up by some Obama appointee of a judge, delaying for perhaps a long time any implementation of his move. In addition, it appears from the polls that this executive order is unpopular with the public even though the wall itself and border security in general is very popular with the people.

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I don't see it as a disagreement about border security. The disagreement is over how to do that. A wall seems like a very ineffective way to spend money since those south of the border are excellent at digging tunnels.

jsimms435 said:

I don't see it as a disagreement about border security. The disagreement is over how to do that. A wall seems like a very ineffective way to spend money since those south of the border are excellent at digging tunnels.

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I'm not entirely sure that's the case. The concept of things like "sanctuary cities" suggests there are at least some who don't want to enforce the border laws.

Of course the "discussion by meme" just produces lots of noise and little of any value. I like the meme that said something like "if walls don't work, do prisoners stay voluntarily?". Of course in a prison the inmates don't have access to shovels and digging equipment, don't have time when they aren't being supervised for long enough to dig a tunnel under the wall, don't have anywhere to connect lighting so they can see what they are doing, and don't have a section of the wall sufficiently remote that they can work on it at their leisure.

jsimms435 said:

For Trump to swallow his pride and admit he is wrong

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I agree but don't think he would ever know how to admit he's wrong. For he is "right" about everything and so are his followers who are sadly ignorant. Very sadly.