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  • Page 8 of 12 FirstFirst ... 678910 ... LastLast
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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: What is God's role in salvation?

    1. #71
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      It does entail an about face, and this because it means a change in the nous..
      Meta means change, and nova means pertaining to the nous...
      We translate nous as mind, and in a way it is...
      But it is not thoughts and feelings and opinions and the like...
      It is much more fundamental than that...
      It is the orientation of the person...
      The nous is the eye of the heart...
      The director of perception...
      The ruler of thoughts...
      Demon possession is demonic control of the nous...
      Which controls the person...
      Which controls the body...

      It is the logical progression of turning away from God...
      It is a Grace given us by God if we turn away...
      That we see for ourselves the direction we have turned...
      The Church exorcises these at Baptism...
      And sometimes apart from Baptism out of compassion...
      And not only for Christians but for anyone so possessed...

      Enough...


      Arsenios
      This is the perfect example of repentance, which lead to a great awakening in Macedonia and Greece.

      1 Thessalonians 1:8-10
      For not only has the word of the Lord sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but your faith in God has gone forth everywhere, so that we need not say anything. For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

      Notice how God changes their lives...then they repent...leaving behind their idols and turning to the God who had made them alive with Christ.

    2. #72
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      I disagree with the statement above.
      Faith is not about a choice we make to believe.
      Left to ourselves we will always not believe. Instead we will place our trust in self and do whatever it takes to survive and control the people around us to our benefit. Faith won't even be a thought in our minds except as how we can manipulate others with a false concept of faith
      Faith is about God giving us the gracious ability to believe despite our selves.
      Hebrews 11:1-3
      Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.
      Truth! No man seeks God in our sinful and dead state, we must be regenerated (reborn) of the Holy Spirit, Faith comes from God as a gift and we (the elect) naturally accept it... We then transform, put on the new man and become Gods workmanship by grace, Faith is the whole because we cannot tear away from it, it sticks, it stays with us 24/7 and cannot escape us. Belief is another way of saying "now you know" you are aware that you believe but it's not some decision we made, again it comes from God always.

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    4. #73
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      This is the perfect example of repentance, which lead to a great awakening in Macedonia and Greece.

      1 Thessalonians 1:8-10
      For not only has the word of the Lord sounded forth from you in Macedonia and Achaia, but your faith in God has gone forth everywhere, so that we need not say anything. For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

      Notice how God changes their lives...then they repent...leaving behind their idols and turning to the God who had made them alive with Christ.
      Is the Call of God the Call to Sinners to Repent from their sins?

      Does that Call change their lives?

      Or does their repenting change their lives?

      Or do the two work together? [synergy]

      Not ALL Seed falls on fertile soil, you see...

      Repentance is the moistening of dry soil...

      The weeding of the garden...

      The softening of the soil...

      Cultivation of the ground...

      Humus is humility...

      The warm moist soil of repentance...


      Arsenios
      Last edited by Arsenios; 02-11-2019 at 11:42 AM.

    5. #74
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      Is the Call of God the Call to Sinners to Repent from their sins?

      Does that Call change their lives?

      Or does their repenting change their lives?

      Or do the two work together? [synergy]

      Not ALL Seed falls on fertile soil, you see...

      Repentance is the moistening of dry soil...

      The weeding of the garden...

      The softening of the soil...

      Cultivation of the ground...

      Humus is humility...

      The warm moist soil of repentance...


      Arsenios
      God first chooses to make a person alive with Christ. Now that they are made right with God, God calls the newly alive person to repentance.
      Repentance does not come before God gives life. It can't. The spiritually dead have no ability to repent.
      Arsenios, you have repeatedly put the cart before the horse in your thinking about salvation.

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    7. #75
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      God first chooses to make a person alive with Christ. Now that they are made right with God, God calls the newly alive person to repentance.
      Repentance does not come before God gives life. It can't. The spiritually dead have no ability to repent.
      Arsenios, you have repeatedly put the cart before the horse in your thinking about salvation.
      When God Calls sinners to repentance, is He calling sinners?

      And does His Call go out to sinners?

      Or do you falsely believe God only calls those He has already made Righteous?

      IF God Calls YOU to repentance, then you CAN repent...

      Yet it is YOU who are to repent, even you the sinner...

      Josiah argued the same, thinking that we are saved and then begin repenting...

      This false doctrine infects much of western thinking to this day...


      Arsenios

    8. #76
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      When God Calls sinners to repentance, is He calling sinners?

      And does His Call go out to sinners?

      Or do you falsely believe God only calls those He has already made Righteous?

      IF God Calls YOU to repentance, then you CAN repent...

      Yet it is YOU who are to repent, even you the sinner...

      Josiah argued the same, thinking that we are saved and then begin repenting...

      This false doctrine infects much of western thinking to this day...


      Arsenios
      God calls those whom He has made alive in Christ to repentance.
      In our human nature we still sin. Like the prodigal...who is the son of the Father...not a person outside the family...God calls us to repent.
      Dead men cannot repent. No matter how desperately you wish it to be so that you can claim control...dead men cannot repent.
      Those who do not believe will not repent.
      Arsenios, you put the cart before the horse. You want non-believers to repent so that in doing they will believe. Your entire doctrine of salvation is man-centered God as a passive bystander until men do all they can do.

    9. #77
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      God calls those whom He has made alive in Christ to repentance.
      In our human nature we still sin. Like the prodigal...who is the son of the Father...not a person outside the family...God calls us to repent.
      Dead men cannot repent. No matter how desperately you wish it to be so that you can claim control...dead men cannot repent.
      Those who do not believe will not repent.
      Arsenios, you put the cart before the horse. You want non-believers to repent so that in doing they will believe. Your entire doctrine of salvation is man-centered God as a passive bystander until men do all they can do.
      True, a non believer wouldn't even want to repent, they wouldn't even care what that word even means, it's complete garbage and jarring to their ears.

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    11. #78
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      Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
      True, a non believer wouldn't even want to repent, they wouldn't even care what that word even means, it's complete garbage and jarring to their ears.
      I lived 36 years as an atheist in repentance from a major sin simply because it did not belong in me...
      I sought to understand it so I could heal it or overcome it...
      When I failed I met God...
      The very God Whose existence I had denied...
      And Whose followers I had so detested...
      Unloving and judgemental hypocrites...


      Arsenios

    12. #79
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      When God Calls sinners to repentance, is He calling sinners?

      And does His Call go out to sinners?

      Or do you falsely believe God only calls those He has already made Righteous?

      IF God Calls YOU to repentance, then you CAN repent...

      Yet it is YOU who are to repent, even you the sinner...

      Josiah argued the same, thinking that we are saved and then begin repenting...

      This false doctrine infects much of western thinking to this day...


      Arsenios

      You have to ask yourself what the point of repentance is. Then remind yourself that salvation is by grace through faith and this is not of yourself. Repentance isn't just for you to be sorry for your sins and try to stop them. Why would God have repentance ONLY be about that? He doesn't. He wants us to have faith in Him and that faith is given to us as He turns us to Him (by grace through His word).

      Repentance is for sinners...we sin daily so yes, we repent daily. Repentance has a purpose and that is to turn to God, where we should be because He calls us.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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    14. #80
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      I lived 36 years as an atheist in repentance from a major sin simply because it did not belong in me...
      I sought to understand it so I could heal it or overcome it...
      When I failed I met God...
      The very God Whose existence I had denied...
      And Whose followers I had so detested...
      Unloving and judgemental hypocrites...


      Arsenios
      Same here brother, I was a complete atheist anti-Christ up until around the age 30 or so, I was at my lowest point and I began praying to God for help. Sometimes looking back I wonder what made me 'know' I was speaking to the God I had been so sure didn't exist, I wonder how many atheist will find themselves bowing their knees in prayer to the God they believed was make believe.
      He was always there but in time he will reveal himself to those he loves.

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