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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: What is God's role in salvation?

    1. #1
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      What is God's role in salvation?

      We've seen a lot of threads about what members think is man's role (or none) in salvation. Is God limited in saving you? Does He sit back and wait for you to do something before He can proceed? Is God a distant God then in your salvation and you take the front role?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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    3. #2
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      For those saved, God has EVERYTHING to do with justification (narrow, initial). Jesus is the Savior. Thus, Jesus is the Savior. Not self.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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    5. #3
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      .


      Answer this: WHO is the Savior?


      IF you answer "Jesus" then Jesus is the Savior. Not you - not a bit, not at all, not now, not ever, not in any way or shape or form or manner. Salvation is entirely, wholly wrapped up in Jesus. It's entirely HIS work. HIS heart. HIS love. HIS mercy. HIS gift. HIS blessing. His life, His death, His resurrection. His Cross, His blood, His sacrifice. His righteousness, His obedience, His holiness. Not you. Not yours. You may have some other role in some other matter, but not this. The "job" of Savior belongs to Jesus. Not you.

      IF you answer "me" then you are the Savior. Not Jesus. Not a bit, not at all. Not now, not ever. Not in any way, shape or form or manner. Salvation is all wrapped up in YOU. YOUR works. YOUR will. YOUR love. YOUR efforts. YOUR merits. YOUR obedience. YOUR righteousness. YOUR holiness. YOUR sacrifice. Not Jesus. Not Jesus'. Jesus may have some other role in some other matter, just not this one. The Savior is you.

      Which is it? Try answering that.




      Problem is:

      The Devil and our egotistical sinful self WANTS to say "me." The devil will do ANYTHING to get us to make Jesus smaller and self bigger, to get the attention off the Cross and on the mirror....

      The Devil will TRY to suggest that Jesus is ANYTHING but The Savior. The Possibility-Maker perhaps ("Jesus opened the door to heaven but you gotta get yourself through it") or a Helper maybe ("You can't do anything in this regard, but you get a lot of help from your friends...."). Or The Imspiror or The Teacher or The Example.... anything (even great things).... anything that's NOT the SAVIOR.

      All non-Christian religions teach that no Savior is needed. Self can do it (with sufficient help, inspiration, instruction and above all, effort). It may take you a million reincarnations but YOU can DO it. The central point where Christianity separates from every other religion is that Christianity holds that fallen man CANNOT save himself (no matter how much help or inspiration or instruction he gets).... he needs a divine SAVIOR.... and God provided that. There is no other name under heaven by which any may be saved (including his own). Every other religion tells you to look in the mirror.... Christianity tells you to look to the Cross.

      Some play all kinds of GAMES with this - THE most important issue in eternity. They'll say, "Well, it's 99% Jesus and just 1% me." When you ask about that "1%" you quickly find out that "1%" is THE reason they are going to heaven... so we're right back to the Savior of me is me. And BTW, all other religions say it's only "partly" self, too.




      My position is simple... and is the foundation and the distinctive characteristic of Christianity... on which all eternity hinges....

      JESUS (and NO OTHER including self, there is NO OTHER name under heaven by which any may be saved)
      IS (factually, really)
      THE (total, 100%, exclusive, effectual)
      SAVIOR (not just helper or possibility-maker or door-opener or inspiration or teacher or model)


      The devil and our own sinful, fallen self will push away from that as much as we can... try to make it as complicated as possible... but it's pretty simple.



      - Josiah




      .
      Last edited by Josiah; 01-14-2019 at 07:10 PM.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      We've seen a lot of threads about what members think is man's role (or none) in salvation. Is God limited in saving you? Does He sit back and wait for you to do something before He can proceed? Is God a distant God then in your salvation and you take the front role?
      What is His Role?

      What is the Bride-groom's role in a Marriage?

      What the Bride's?

      How does this relate to the Parable of the 10 Virgins?


      Arsenios
      Last edited by Arsenios; 01-16-2019 at 12:14 AM.

    7. #5
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      What is His Role?

      What is the Bride-groom's role in a Marriage?

      What the Bride's?

      How does this relate to the Parable of the 10 Virgins?


      Arsenios
      You didn't answer my question.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    8. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      You didn't answer my question.
      Arsenios can't...or he won't.
      God is Sovereign. He looks upon rebellious humanity and He chooses whom He will pardon and restore into covenant. Thus, He also leaves people to die under the curse of sin.
      This is God's Sovereign right. I have no say in the matter. I am at the mercy of God, fully dependent upon His grace to save me.

    9. #7
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      IMO,

      THIS is THE most important issue in the universe.... in eternity....

      THIS is THE issue on which all Christianity is built, THE "keystone"

      Get this wrong and all Christianity crumbles.

      And for that very reason, THIS is the issue Satan and our sinful flesh will work hardest to mess up, to make complicated, to make hard to understand. The enemies of God will work OVERTIME to make Jesus as small as possible and self as big as possible; to make sin as small as possible and salvation as irrelevant as possible, to get us to look to the mirror rather than to the Cross., to lift up self rather than Christ. They will work HARD to make Jesus only a helper or possibility-maker or inspiration or teacher or model... and they often succeed.


      THE most important issue there is. There is NO OTHER issue about which Christians should be more clear, more bold, more certain.



      - Josiah




      .
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    10. #8
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      God's role in salvation is all of it that is active and man's role is all of it that is receiving passively only because of God's grace and that's the fact Jack.
      If you want to rile people up then go to a Christian site and give God ALL the glory for your salvation.

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    12. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by TurtleHare View Post
      God's role in salvation is all of it that is active and man's role is all of it that is receiving passively only because of God's grace and that's the fact Jack.

      Amen!


      Problem is: Some will say "SURE, but you gotta ____________, you gotta __________, you gotta _____________" which of course creates an oxymoron, a contradiction that just effectively eliminates the "sure." Many will even convey something like "Jesus does 99% of it, and we only do 1%" but as they express that, that 1% turns out to be THE part that actually determines where they will spend eternity... and means that Jesus isn't the Savior at all.


      Nothing more important .... in all the universe.... in all eternity....



      - Josiah
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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    14. #10
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      The approach toward salvation can be viewed through cause and effect whereby God causes the effect of salvation for men and not the other way around.

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