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    Christian Theology - Thread: Calvinism Vs Arminian

    1. #1
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      Calvinism Vs Arminian

      I found this very interesting.
      The first video is on Calvinism but it speaks much on the Arminian responses as well, and the second video is visa versa.


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      All one need know is that Calvinism is very very naughty!

      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      All one need know is that Calvinism is very very naughty!

      Indeed all denominations are fairly close but 'no cigar'.
      I can kind of twist things around in my head until I agree (to a certain degree) on what Calvinist believes but ...it's also so far off at the same time IMO, the Arminian counter theology is just as close but I lean (if I must) more toward the more Arminian theology.
      If I had to choose I would pick about 50 percent of each side... which would cancel out the other anyway and I would just remain non denominational like I currently am
      Last edited by Andrew; 01-03-2019 at 01:40 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
      Indeed all denominations are fairly close but 'no cigar'.
      I can kind of twist things around in my head until I agree (to a certain degree) on what Calvinist believes but ...it's also so far off at the same time IMO, the Arminian counter theology is just as close but I lean (if I must) more toward the more Arminian theology.
      If I had to choose I would pick about 50 percent of each side... which would cancel out the other anyway and I would just remain non denominational like I currently am

      Hyper-Calvinism and hyper-Arminianism are both radical. new. very tight systems invented in the late 16th Century. Both are equally unbiblical and depend on extremely high esteem that each "side" has in the "logic" of self alone and the "answers" that self alone gives to the questions self alone asks self.

      There is a good reason that both have been very well rebuking the other for nearly 500 years - because both are wrong. Both sides have proven this for centuries.

      But because of the extreme ego of both camps..... because neither side seems to care much about Scripture or Tradition.... because both are convinced self can't be wrong... it gets nowhere.

      There is a reason why the vast majority of Christians have rejected both of these positions. To stand with Scripture and Christian history mandates that.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
      Indeed all denominations are fairly close but 'no cigar'.
      I can kind of twist things around in my head until I agree (to a certain degree) on what Calvinist believes but ...it's also so far off at the same time IMO, the Arminian counter theology is just as close but I lean (if I must) more toward the more Arminian theology.
      If I had to choose I would pick about 50 percent of each side... which would cancel out the other anyway and I would just remain non denominational like I currently am
      This is termed "synergism," which is what people do when trying to rationalize and still maintain control over their life rather than accept the full sovereign rule of God over all aspects of life.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      Hyper-Calvinism and hyper-Arminianism are both radical. new. very tight systems invented in the late 16th Century. Both are equally unbiblical and depend on extremely high esteem that each "side" has in the "logic" of self alone and the "answers" that self alone gives to the questions self alone asks self.

      There is a good reason that both have been very well rebuking the other for nearly 500 years - because both are wrong. Both sides have proven this for centuries.

      But because of the extreme ego of both camps..... because neither side seems to care much about Scripture or Tradition.... because both are convinced self can't be wrong... it gets nowhere.

      There is a reason why the vast majority of Christians have rejected both of these positions. To stand with Scripture and Christian history mandates that.
      Hyper is a made-up term by synergists such as yourself, Josiah, who cannot accept that God is 100% Lord over all areas of life.
      You can claim to be a monergist until the cows come home, but your position is purely synergist...like all Arminians.
      Ego is always a factor with humans. However, scripture guides over ego. Yet, you still ignore scripture in regard to God's atonement.
      For you:
      God's atonement is universal, but God's ability to save is limited. God fails to save because human will is greater than God's will.
      For me:
      God's atonement is limited, but God's ability to save all He's chosen is universal. God successfully saves all whom He has chosen because God's will is greater than the human rebellion against God.
      Last edited by MennoSota; 01-03-2019 at 11:49 AM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Hyper is a made-up term by synergists such as yourself, Josiah, who cannot accept that God is 100% Lord over all areas of life.
      I don't think that it actually is.

      However, the term refers to a fringe of the Calvinist/Reformed churches which hold that since God has predetermined the eternal fate of each person, it is pointless for Christians to engage in any mission work. While that may seem logical at first glance, it conflicts with the majority opinion among Calvinists.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      I don't think that it actually is.

      However, the term refers to a fringe of the Calvinist/Reformed churches which hold that since God has predetermined the eternal fate of each person, it is pointless for Christians to engage in any mission work. While that may seem logical at first glance, it conflicts with the majority opinion among Calvinists.
      There may be those who do not evangelize and thus fail to obey God's command, but they are not being biblical. Most Reformed person's are very missional. We see our role as ambassadors of reconciliation, sending out the call to reconciliation so that all might hear...knowing that only the elect will respond.
      It is utterly silly of Josiah to try label all Reformed believers as hyper just because they recognize all five tenets of TULIP. Believing in particular atonement does not make someone "hyper," but it does make one biblically sound in lifting up the full Sovereignty of God.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Hyper is a made-up term by synergists such as yourself, Josiah

      How you discredit yourself when you evade discussion by accusing others of ABSURD things. Everyone here KNOWS I'm not a synergist.


      Interesting how hyper-Calvinists go on constantly about how logical they are.... and they prove themselves right by FALSELY accusing others of being wrong on some other matter and "ERGO" declare self right about something else.

      No, as everyone knows, I'm not a synergist. But that doesn't make me a hyper-Calvinist, it just makes me a monergist.




      you cannot accept that God is 100% Lord over all areas of life.

      Quote me where I stated that.

      You have that problem with MUCH that you post, you have zero substantiation, nothing to quote.


      I accept that God is 100% Lord over all. That doesn't make hyper-Calvinism or hyper-Arminianism correct.




      scripture guides over ego

      I agree. So, we're all still waiting for that verse that says "Jesus died ONLY, EXCLUSIVELY, SOLELY, JUST for the few, the elect, the church."


      Hyper-Calvinism and Arminianism are both radical, late, tight constructs that are NOT at all biblical or traditionally Christian. Both are the result of very egotistical men appointing self to ask questions and then designated self to answer them and then turning those into dogmas (which God must accept or He is illogical). Each CLAIMS their construct is logical bur it is OBVIOUS they are anything but (as each side proves of the other). Each side CLAIMS their invention is bibical but neither can find verses that remotely say what they do and must radically spin a LOT of Scriptures to say the opposite of what they do to avoid admitting their stance is actually very unbiblical.


      Admittedly, there is MYSTERY involved in Christian theology at times; God has not revealed or explained everything (nor is He obligated to do so), We can ask questions but no one appointed anyone to answer them dogmatically and then tell God He's wrong when God says otherwise. Luther said, "Humility is the foundation of all sound theology." That includes the humility to SHUT UP, to not think ourselves smarter than God or appoint self as the corrector of God. We'll have "loose ends".... there will be times we can't "connect the dots." It's okay. God is soveriegn, not self. God's ways are NOT our ways. What God says is true - whether we can wrap our puny, fallen, limited, sinful brains around it or not. God is Lord of us.... it's not the other way around.



      For you: God's atonement is universal, but God's ability to save is limited. God fails to save because human will is greater than God's will.

      Quote me where I stated that.

      You know you can't because everyone here at CH knows I've never said that and never taught that. I hold to the Protestant Theology of Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide. When faith in Christ is present, justification is present.




      For me: God successfully saves all whom He has chosen because God's will is greater than the human rebellion against God.
      True enough, that just has nothing to do with TULIP and nothing to do with the radical dogma invented by a few latter-day hyper-Calvinists that Jesus died for ONLY a few. You like to play the shell game, always changing the subject.



      Arminians came up with a tight, closed system - it seemed "logical" to him but it's simply against Scripture and Christian history (and logic, too)

      Some hyper, extreme, latter-day Calvinists (realizing Arminius was wrong) simply reversed everything to come up with an EQUALLY tight, closed system that seemed "logical" to them but simply is against Scripture and Christian history (and logic, too)

      Both sides have proven the other to be both unbiblical and illogical - and they are both right. But since both are profoundly egotistical, because both are tight and closed systems, because both thing THEIR (terrible!) logic trumps Scripture, either sees what is obvious.



      Now, if you want to change the subject to Monergism vs. Synergism, we'll be on the same page.




      .
      Last edited by Josiah; 01-03-2019 at 01:02 PM.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      There may be those who do not evangelize and thus fail to obey God's command, but they are not being biblical. Most Reformed person's are very missional. We see our role as ambassadors of reconciliation, sending out the call to reconciliation so that all might hear...knowing that only the elect will respond.
      Fine, but I was simply addressing the meaning of the word itself.

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