Buying intellectual work - is it a sin?

MoreCoffee

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So does your house's front door despite having been designed by an architect and built by other people.

No one mistakes an address for a claim to creation; no one thinks that a home owner was the architect, builder, and financier of the home. But the name on the front cover of a book usually denotes the author of the book. "Great Expectations by Charles Dickens" means (or at least is intended to covey) that Charles Dickens wrote the book called Great Expectations.
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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No one mistakes an address for a claim to creation; no one thinks that a home owner was the architect, builder, and financier of the home.
Why not? Plenty of people build their own homes themselves. Plenty of architects design their homes themselves. So, you're saying that what makes something a sin in the eyes of God is a matter of social constructs?

But the name on the front cover of a book usually denotes the author of the book.
It can also denote the author of the ideas presented in the book and / or the name of the people who collected the ideas and expanded them (as is the case of the fairy tales collected by the brothers Grimm from various sources).

"Great Expectations by Charles Dickens" means (or at least is intended to covey) that Charles Dickens wrote the book called Great Expectations.
Just like "The Little Mermaid" by Walt Disney doesn't mean that Walt Disney wrote the story or the script or drew the characters of The Little Mermaid movie.
 

MoreCoffee

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Why not? Plenty of people build their own homes themselves. Plenty of architects design their homes themselves. So, you're saying that what makes something a sin in the eyes of God is a matter of social constructs?
NO, I am saying no such thing. I gave an example. That is all. Some home owners may be the architect who designed it, maybe a few are both architect and building manager, possibly a very few are architect, building manager, and labourer as well a electrician, plumber carpenter and every other trade needed to construct the building but that is not the point. The majority of home owners are none of those things. And the point of the example is that having an address is not a claim to creation of the building at the address. Let's not play games with words. The meaning of my post was sufficiently clear so there's no value in going down this blind alley.

It can also denote the author of the ideas presented in the book and / or the name of the people who collected the ideas and expanded them (as is the case of the fairy tales collected by the brothers Grimm from various sources).
No, the name on the front usually means author, if somebody inspired the work then that will likely be stated in the preface or on the back cover in the publisher's notes there. Once more I say please let's not play games with words. If you wanted to know why claiming creation of intellectual property because you bought it is not moral then the answer is clear; it is not moral to do so because all the buyer did is pay for it. The work is someone else's because they created it and the claim of the owner to be creator when he did not create the work is a lie. It is obvious that telling lies is immoral.

Just like "The Little Mermaid" by Walt Disney doesn't mean that Walt Disney wrote the story or the script or drew the characters of The Little Mermaid movie.

I believe that Walt Disney was long dead by the time the little mermaid was made, the animated film was made (paid for and using the employees of) the Disney corporation.
 

Arsenios

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What do you mean?

Ego is always heavy to carry...

Toilsome to maintain...

Laborious to build...

Some make a lot of money - But never enough - And get suicidal when they have all the money and find their ego is still not Joy...

So just let me find someone who has created a really nice novel or spy thriller, and I go buy it from him entire with full rights to it completely... And then I find a publisher and get it printed and name myself as the author... After all, I bought total rights to the manuscript and paid the writer of it to be MY writer, so that makes ME the author, or ANYONE I may designate... Of course, then I have to disguise myself... Oh the story is without end without repentance...

"O what a tangled web we weave...
When first we practice to deceive..."


So the rich guy pays the writer for the mss...

The poor guy steals the same manuscript...

"But the servants knew..." John 2:9


Arsenios
 

Lucian Hodoboc

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The meaning of my post was sufficiently clear

For me it wasn't. Still isn't.

I believe that Walt Disney was long dead by the time the little mermaid was made, the animated film was made (paid for and using the employees of) the Disney corporation.
My point exactly. So, why is Disney's name on the cover? Why is Disney's name on any of the films he funded (while he was alive) based on various literary works he did not write?
 

tango

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It's inaccurate, perhaps deceitful because if gives the impression that "you" wrote it when in fact you did not. The non-morality of pretending to have done what somebody else has done is too obvious to need further explanation.

There's a difference between buying intellectual property and pretending you did it yourself.

Can you explain what is immoral about me selling my intellectual property in software to another company and updating it so it says "copyright company" rather than "copyright tango"? Owning the copyright doesn't mean you wrote it - in any event if a company claims the copyright it's not as if the company did the work because a specific individual or group would have done the work. If my employer claims the copyright in everything I do on their dime (which is eminently reasonable and generally expected) does that imply that the company did the work rather than me doing the work? If the company doesn't own the intellectual property in the work they paid me to do, why would they pay me to do it in the first place - I could take the money for doing the work, then claim ownership of the work and sell it to someone else.

I think the best answer you can give to your original question is "maybe".
 

tango

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NO, I am saying no such thing. I gave an example. That is all. Some home owners may be the architect who designed it, maybe a few are both architect and building manager, possibly a very few are architect, building manager, and labourer as well a electrician, plumber carpenter and every other trade needed to construct the building but that is not the point. The majority of home owners are none of those things. And the point of the example is that having an address is not a claim to creation of the building at the address. Let's not play games with words. The meaning of my post was sufficiently clear so there's no value in going down this blind alley.

Certainly saying "I live at 999 Letsbe Avenue" is generally not taken to be a statement or even a loose implication that I had anything to do with the construction of the building. Chances are I've had some input into the color scheme and maybe the design of the kitchen or bathroom, and perhaps added or removed a partition. Maybe I've been involved in construction or reconstruction of all or some of the property but even there I might talk to friends about "when I extended the house" without creating an implication that I did the work myself, merely that I was the owner of the house when it was extended, that the extension was done to my specifications (which in turn may have involved an architect who is unlikely to get a mention unless they designed something spectacular) and that I funded the work (which may have involved an as-yet-unrepaid bank loan that may not get a mention). I suspect most people would regard the phrases "we extended our house" and "we had our house extended" to have the same meaning even though the former could be taken to imply that we did the work ourselves and the latter implies someone else actually doing the work.

In the same way "Great Expectations by Charles Dickens" could be taken to mean that Mr Dickens sat down with a pen and paper and wrote every word of it, or that he commissioned someone else to sit down with a pen and paper and come up with a book to his outline, or that he gave someone else freedom to write a story and paid for their time.

No, the name on the front usually means author, if somebody inspired the work then that will likely be stated in the preface or on the back cover in the publisher's notes there. Once more I say please let's not play games with words. If you wanted to know why claiming creation of intellectual property because you bought it is not moral then the answer is clear; it is not moral to do so because all the buyer did is pay for it. The work is someone else's because they created it and the claim of the owner to be creator when he did not create the work is a lie. It is obvious that telling lies is immoral.

But are you claiming creation by putting your name on the front cover of the book? If you commissioned someone else to create a work then the work isn't theirs, it is yours, because they created it as a work for hire. When I worked in a creative capacity my employer paid me a monthly salary in exchange for the work I did. The work I did on their dime belonged to them, not to me. Now when I work on a freelance basis one matter that has to be discussed and agreed before starting a project is ownership of the finished work - the fact I do the work doesn't necessarily mean I own it because the person paying me may have a valid claim to it.

I believe that Walt Disney was long dead by the time the little mermaid was made, the animated film was made (paid for and using the employees of) the Disney corporation.

Interesting, the difference between a human and a corporation with a similar name, where one can survive the death of the other.
 
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