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    Christian Theology - Thread: The Simple Original Apostolic Gospel

    1. #1
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      The Simple Original Apostolic Gospel

      A challenge was offered in another thread, and that challenge was met not with an answer, but with counter-challenges to other members. In response, I offer a reminder to @Pedrito of these issue at hand.

      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      ...I would challenge Pedrito to give us a succinct explanation of the "Simple Original Apostolic Gospel" so revealed (or not so revealed) to him
      Parentheses added by me. Let's start there as opposed to asking for "proof texts" from others who have made their views clear.

      Original thread for context:
      Would I Be Admitted

    2. #2
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      ================================================== ============================================

      The Simple Original Apostolic Gospel


      ================================================== ============================================

      Doctrine 1 – There is a Conscious “Soul” That Survives Human Death

      ImaginaryDay2, Post #1:
      A challenge was offered in another thread, and that challenge was met not with an answer, but with counter-challenges to other members. In response, I offer a reminder to Pedrito of these issue at hand.

      Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 in
      ...I would challenge Pedrito to give us a succinct explanation of the "Simple Original Apostolic Gospel" so revealed (or not so revealed) to him
      Parentheses added by me. Let's start there as opposed to asking for "proof texts" from others who have made their views clear.
      As was pointed out in Post #131 of the “Would I be admitted” thread, people normally reject out of hand, ideas that they don’t want to believe. That is true whether the ideas are demonstrably true, or not.

      So as a practical alternative, we were to focus on doctrines of Christendom one by one, to see if they truly had Scriptural basis. As each belief was reviewed, it would be shown to be Scriptural or not, and therefore part of the Original Apostolic Gospel or not. Very simple. Very straightforward. And highly appropriate.

      ================================================== ============================================

      That approach is especially practical, since people choose to continue to cling to treasured unscriptural beliefs, while insisting that those beliefs are based only on the Bible. That situation is clearly evidenced by a continuing inability to present relevant verses that have been claimed to exist. In that situation, if I or anyone else presented the Simple Original Apostolic Gospel to those people for their predictable summary rejection of it, couldn’t we be considered by God to be doing something like casting pearls before swine?


      ================================================== ============================================

      Continued…
      Seeking to understand with precision, God's holy and coherent revelation to us.

    3. #3
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      You could try this passage, it is mainly about the resurrection

      1 Corinthians 15:1-11 Now I would remind you, brethren, in what terms I preached to you the gospel, which you received, in which you stand, 2 by which you are saved, if you hold it fast--unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, unfit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace toward me was not in vain. On the contrary, I worked harder than any of them, though it was not I, but the grace of God which is with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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    5. #4
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      As was pointed out in Post #131 of the “Would I be admitted” thread, people normally reject out of hand, ideas that they don’t want to believe. That is true whether the ideas are demonstrably true, or not.
      Perhaps. But as there were no ideas posited by you that cannot be examined and concluded.

      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      So as a practical alternative, we were to focus on doctrines of Christendom one by one, to see if they truly had Scriptural basis. As each belief was reviewed, it would be shown to be Scriptural or not, and therefore part of the Original Apostolic Gospel or not. Very simple. Very straightforward. And highly appropriate.
      Perhaps; however, this approach wasn't agreed on, so "we" (i.e. you) offered the alternative. I stand by my original challenge, hence this thread.

      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      That approach is especially practical, since people choose to continue to cling to treasured unscriptural beliefs, while insisting that those beliefs are based only on the Bible. That situation is clearly evidenced by a continuing inability to present relevant verses that have been claimed to exist. In that situation, if I or anyone else presented the Simple Original Apostolic Gospel to those people for their predictable summary rejection of it, couldn’t we be considered by God to be doing something like casting pearls before swine?
      Perhaps it could be practical. Seeing as how MoreCoffee has taken you up on the alternative approach suggested (not agreed upon) we'll see how it goes. However, the burden remains with you to answer the challenge in as simple and succinct a manner as possible.

    6. #5
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      ================================================== ============================================

      The Simple Original Apostolic Gospel


      ================================================== ============================================

      General

      MoreCoffee’s offering of 1 Corinthians 15:1-11 in Post 3, was definitely a good suggestion with respect to a broad base from which to work.

      We learn from that passage:
      - The Gospel saves people, and its component teachings are:
      – Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
      – He was buried, and rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
      – Heaps of people saw Him, and thus His resurrection was confirmed.

      ================================================== ============================================

      But I suspect that some CH Readers would like a little more information. That cannot be the whole story.

      My repeated mention of The Original Apostolic Gospel, was designed to help people identify what God has revealed through the Bible when it is read as it was written – without the filters of denominationalism. That would reveal with certainty exactly which Church (if any) is faithfully teaching the original Gospel. That investigation involves comparison – it is a natural outcome – it cannot be avoided.

      The Simple Original Apostolic Gospel was (and still is) “the faith once and for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3). It was complete. It needed no addition or modification. So perhaps we should ask MoreCoffee to reveal for us some more aspects of the Simple Original Apostolic Gospel, as well as why it was felt necessary to modify that original Gospel significantly by additions that now make that original Gospel unrecognisable.

      Those additions include:
      - The “True Church” being led by a strict hierarchical priesthood based in Rome;
      - Confession of sins to that hierarchical priesthood being a preparation for participation in the “Eucharist” ritual;
      - The term “Father” being employed when addressing members of that priesthood (apparently contradicting Jesus’ direct command);
      - Believers being in danger of spending time in a detrimental place labelled “Purgatory”;
      - Other doctrines that have been adopted progressively over the centuries:
      -- Including the mother of Jesus being co-Mediatrix;
      – And in case the official title co-Redemptrix is ultimately adopted, that too.

      So, I hereby request that information. Wouldn't some Readers find that differentiation helpful?


      ================================================== ============================================
      Seeking to understand with precision, God's holy and coherent revelation to us.

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    8. #6
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      ================================================== ============================================

      The Simple Original Apostolic Gospel


      ================================================== ============================================

      General

      Having been encouraged by MoreCoffee’s commencement of a definition of the Simple Original Apostolic Gospel, might it well be appropriate to ask Arsenios to provide us with detail of the Simple Original Apostolic Gospel he referred to in Post #105 in the thread "Would I be admitted":
      fwiw - I can give it in less than 10 seconds standing on one foot...
      That information may be very helpful to a number of Readers, because it could well present a different perspective. That being the case, it would be of valuable service.

      It would be good to ask him nicely however – he did not actually offer to present that information to us. We are requesting a favour.

      ================================================== ============================================

      As well as that information, a listing of the divergences between the Apostolic teachings and practices found in that simple less-than-10-second gospel, and those in the much more complex, current, Greek Orthodox religion, would probably be an aid to our understanding as well.

      So let’s request that, too.


      ================================================== ============================================
      Seeking to understand with precision, God's holy and coherent revelation to us.

    9. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      ================================================== ============================================

      The Simple Original Apostolic Gospel


      ================================================== ============================================

      General

      Having been encouraged by MoreCoffee’s commencement of a definition of the Simple Original Apostolic Gospel, might it well be appropriate to ask Arsenios to provide us with detail of the Simple Original Apostolic Gospel he referred to in Post #105 in the thread "Would I be admitted":


      That information may be very helpful to a number of Readers, because it could well present a different perspective. That being the case, it would be of valuable service.

      It would be good to ask him nicely however – he did not actually offer to present that information to us. We are requesting a favour.

      ================================================== ============================================

      As well as that information, a listing of the divergences between the Apostolic teachings and practices found in that simple less-than-10-second gospel, and those in the much more complex, current, Greek Orthodox religion, would probably be an aid to our understanding as well.

      So let’s request that, too.


      ================================================== ============================================
      @Arsenios ^^^

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    11. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      [B]
      Might it well be appropriate to ask Arsenios
      provide us with detail of the Simple Original Apostolic Gospel
      he referred to in Post #105 in the thread
      "Would I be admitted":
      Do I need to stand up on one foot and recite it in 10 seconds or less???

      Here is the Good News!
      A NEW EVENT has occurred upon this earth in which we find ourselves so fallen...
      That New Event is the ARRIVAL here and now of the Kingdom of Heaven...
      And there is something that man - even you and I and Lamm - can DO about it...
      Soooo.....
      Standing on one foot...
      I present you with the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
      Proclaimed by John the Baptizer of Christ and His Forerunner...
      Then after his death proclaimed by Christ Himself...
      And after His Death on the Cross, proclaimed by Peter...
      And to this day proclaimed to all who hear the Gospel:

      "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!"

      There!

      Three second's worth that time...

      The Gospel before Christ...
      The Gospel by Christ...
      The Gospel after Christ...

      Christ's Holy Gospel...

      Repent!
      Be ye repenting and keep on repenting!
      The Gospel is a Command first...
      THEN comes the Reason:
      For the Kingdom of the Heavens...
      That Kingdom which is Christ Incarnate...
      Where Christ is our Lord and Master...

      Into Whom we are Baptized...
      And are given Food and Drink...
      Is HERE AND NOW upon this earth...
      Is at hand!

      One can only enter this Kingdom in purity of heart...
      So we repent until we are ready to be washed in Baptism...
      Then we are Baptized into Christ washing away all our sins...
      And then are sealed in this purity by the anointing of the Holy Spirit...
      This is our Christing=Anointing
      And only then are we given His Body to eat and His Blood to drink...
      And we proceed to continue repenting to keep this purity to the end...
      This purity received in Baptism...
      As we "run the race set before us"...
      As we are slowly transformed as we mature in Christ...
      One overcoming of demonic assault after the next...
      From Glory to Glory...

      "I will take the Cup of Salvation...
      And I will call upon the Name of the Lord!"

      [A Psalm of David]

      THAT IS the Gospel of Christ - The rest makes it possible...
      Had Adam not sinned, Christ would have still incarnated...
      But He would not have been Crucified...
      For THAT we can thank ourselves in our sins...
      And Christ's Love for all mankind...
      Even for you and me...

      What Peter added was:
      "Repent and be Baptized..."

      "For as many as have been baptized into Christ...
      Have put on Christ..."




      Arsenios
      Last edited by Arsenios; 12-29-2018 at 01:32 PM.

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    13. #9
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      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      You are a VERY rotten child!

      And NO who-me?'s either !!

      Dragging me out of sloth and indolence!

      Have you no shame??


      Arsenios
      Last edited by Arsenios; 12-29-2018 at 05:31 PM.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      You are a VERY rotten child!

      And NO who-me?'s !!

      Dragging me out of sloth and indolence!

      Have you no shame??


      Arsenios

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