Christ Gave Himself Up Only For the Church

MoreCoffee said:

You're right. The Lord Jesus Christ died for the elect. But your idea of who and what the elect are is mistaken.

Ephesians 5:22-33 Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. [SUP]23[/SUP] For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church, the body of which he is the Saviour. [SUP]24[/SUP] Just as the church is subject to Christ, so also wives ought to be, in everything, to their husbands. [SUP]25[/SUP] Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, [SUP]26[/SUP] in order to make her holy by cleansing her with the washing of water by the word, [SUP]27[/SUP] so as to present the church to himself in splendour, without a spot or wrinkle or anything of the kind--yes, so that she may be holy and without blemish. [SUP]28[/SUP] In the same way, husbands should love their wives as they do their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. [SUP]29[/SUP] For no one ever hates his own body, but he nourishes and tenderly cares for it, just as Christ does for the church, [SUP]30[/SUP] because we are members of his body. [SUP]31[/SUP] 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' [SUP]32[/SUP] This is a great mystery, and I am applying it to Christ and the church. [SUP]33[/SUP] Each of you, however, should love his wife as himself, and a wife should respect her husband.

Christ died for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:1-6 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; [SUP]2[/SUP] and he is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world. [SUP]3[/SUP] Now by this we may be sure that we know him, if we obey his commandments. [SUP]4[/SUP] Whoever says, 'I have come to know him', but does not obey his commandments, is a liar, and in such a person the truth does not exist; [SUP]5[/SUP] but whoever obeys his word, truly in this person the love of God has reached perfection. By this we may be sure that we are in him: [SUP]6[/SUP] whoever says, 'I abide in him', ought to walk just as he walked.

Keep your eyes open, read the holy scriptures with understanding as adults. Stop being children in your level of understanding.

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MoreCoffee said:

You are in error, as so many protestants are. You cannot read holy scripture with understanding because you've cut yourself off from the source that gives insight into the holy scriptures.

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tango said:

So "the whole world" means "different social groups" rather than "the whole world"?

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Josiah said:

You must insert a missing word into the text to get that; you must insert "ONLY" which doesn't exist. And you must ignore MUCH of what God has clearly proclaimed, such as...


1 John 2:2

Isaiah 53:6

Luke 19:10

2 Corinthians 5:14-15

Hebrews 2:9

John 1:29

1 John 4:14

John 4:42

John 3:14-16 (see with Numbers 21 where the staff is for ALL who look upon it)

and so much more...


There is a reason why the vast, vast majority of Christians repudiate this horrible doctrine.... it is held by only a tiny minority of Calvinists. It simply contradicts God's clear and bold teaching.... and means that faith is irrelevant and assurance is impossible. It simply means that he with faith has NO CLUE as to whether he is saved because God's mercy, grace, love, forgiveness are for a minority of unspecified persons (and probably includes self), Jesus died for only a minority of unspecifided people so probably that doesn't include self. One may have faith in Christ... but Christ likely is not for them, thus their faith is grasping at absolute emptiness.




.

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tango said:

Your rather curious blend of Paul's teaching with John's teaching really doesn't work.

To say that we are all one in Christ Jesus (i.e. slave and free are equal, male and female are equal, Jew and Greek are equal) and then conclude from this that "the whole world" doesn't mean "the whole world" is a rather curious step of reasoning.

If only Paul had thought to say "you are all one in Christ Jesus, as long as you are one of the Special Few - too bad for the others because they can go hang"

When Peter wrote how God was "longsuffering with us, not wishing that any should perish", I wonder what kind of bumbling halfwit he was talking about, who apparently created untold billions of people knowing from before the dawn of time that they would perish yet still wishing they would not.

Perhaps Isaiah also got it wrong in chapter 61, maybe he should have written "The LORD has anointed me to preach good tidings to a few of the poor, to heal a handful of the broken hearted, to proclaim liberty to carefully preselected captives".

Paul often likened the Christian walk to a race. Imagine the concept of running a marathon, giving it your all, finally getting to the end only to realise that instead of getting the medal for finishing you got shot because you weren't one of the chosen few. It turns the assurance of salvation into little more than a crapshoot, except the snake-eyes don't just watch, they bite. Even Jesus referred to "when you did it unto the least of these, you did it unto me" with no mention of those cast away being told "Yeah, I know you did it unto the least of these but hey, guess what, you weren't chosen from before the dawn of time so you might as well not have bothered".

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