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    Results 21 to 30 of 101
    1. #21
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      Meanwhile, I can honestly say that I have never met a Catholic who thought that he would be in Purgatory, not Heaven, upon departing this life.
      That's an interesting comment, every Catholic that I know and with whom I have discussed this matter knows that we all go through purgatory except for the few who are exemplary in their holiness and are recognised as canonical saints. The priests that I know, and I know a good number, say that they expect to go through purgatory if they are faithful until the end of their earthly life.

      What is your personal expectation, Albion? will you go to heaven, through purgatory, or to hell?
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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    2. #22
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      That's an interesting comment, every Catholic that I know and with whom I have discussed this matter knows that we all go through purgatory except for the few who are exemplary in their holiness and are recognised as canonical saints. The priests that I know, and I know a good number, say that they expect to go through purgatory if they are faithful until the end of their earthly life.

      What is your personal expectation, Albion? will you go to heaven, through purgatory, or to hell?
      Do you not see the utter emptiness of grace in your model, MC?
      Your model for salvation is entirely based upon human works of self-righteousness. It's blatant and obvious, yet you seem completely blind to that reality. How is it that you are so blind?

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Do you not see the utter emptiness of grace in your model, MC?
      Your model for salvation is entirely based upon human works of self-righteousness. It's blatant and obvious, yet you seem completely blind to that reality. How is it that you are so blind?
      @MennoSota, you've written these and similar words dozens of times and must have by now read at least one of the many replies that I've given to you. But for the sake of clarity once again I say
      The faithful are saved by grace through faith for the purpose of living in the good works that God foreordained for them to do.
      The faithful are not saved by works and do not depend on good works to earn or win or in any other way gain salvation.
      God does not owe salvation to anybody for the good works that they have done.
      Salvation is a gift not something earned owed or purchased by the good works of any man, Christ alone excepted.

      If you read the above and remember it then I will be well pleased. If you do not or if you read and then forget then I will expect more posts like the one quoted above from you.

      God bless.

      PS: MennoSota, are you elect? I ask because you appear to be a Calvinist and the question for this thread is relevant to Calvinists who advocate in favour of Calvinism and I think you may be such.
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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    4. #24
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      @MennoSota, you've written these and similar words dozens of times and must have by now read at least one of the many replies that I've given to you. But for the sake of clarity once again I say
      The faithful are saved by grace through faith for the purpose of living in the good works that God foreordained for them to do.
      The faithful are not saved by works and do not depend on good works to earn or win or in any other way gain salvation.
      God does not owe salvation to anybody for the good works that they have done.
      Salvation is a gift not something earned owed or purchased by the good works of any man, Christ alone excepted.

      If you read the above and remember it then I will be well pleased. If you do not or if you read and then forget then I will expect more posts like the one quoted above from you.

      God bless.
      Do you see the contradiction of your bolded words with your post regarding purgatory? You mouth one thing while showing a hope in your self-righteousness to gain God's favor.
      That's an interesting comment, every Catholic that I know and with whom I have discussed this matter knows that we all go through purgatory except for the few who are exemplary in their holiness and are recognised as canonical saints. The priests that I know, and I know a good number, say that they expect to go through purgatory if they are faithful until the end of their earthly life.

    5. #25
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      MC, I believe that God has chosen to redeem me. This belief is based upon the gift of faith that God has placed in my being.
      Is it possible that my faith is misplaced? Only God knows. For my part, I will continue to persevere on the path laid out for me. God will sustain my faith as He determines.

    6. #26
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Do you see the contradiction of your bolded words with your post regarding purgatory? You mouth one thing while showing a hope in your self-righteousness to gain God's favor.
      No, I see no contradiction between salvation by grace and purging the faithful from their flaws prior to receiving them into the presence of God who cannot look upon sins. If you want I can give you scripture references for what I just typed. But I think that you already believe that in heaven the faithful are perfected and have no flaws left because they have been changed by God after they died so that sin no longer dominates in their souls and they can no longer be tempted to perform sins.
      Saint Jude, author of the new testament letter.

      He is the patron of impossible causes because the scriptural Letter of St. Jude, which he authored, urges Christians to persevere in difficult times.

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    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      This is false. Josiah, you don't know what you are talking about. Best to abstain.
      It might be more useful to explain what you believe to be true, rather than simply saying "No. Wrong. Be quiet."
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

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    9. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      I am glad for the reply, but it looks to me that you mischaracterize the meaning of Faith as Calvinists see it. It certainly is not a trust in something abstract or just anything at all, but is Faith in Christ as ones Lord and Savior plus all that goes along with that conviction.
      Unless I'm missing the point here, the question is whether that faith has any value if it is held by someone who is not elect. If you have faith, from whatever source, that Jesus Christ died for your sin and rose again, that Jesus is the only way to God, and that you have repented of your sins and follow the commandments Jesus gave us, but you are not elect, does that faith have any value at all? Or is it like having faith that the rickety bridge will carry you across the ravine only to find out, too late, that you were wrong? Is it like getting all dressed up to go to that exclusive venue only to get to the door and find your ticket was a fake and you spend the rest of your life in prison for forgery, only much worse?
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

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    11. #29
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      No, I see no contradiction between salvation by grace and purging the faithful from their flaws prior to receiving them into the presence of God who cannot look upon sins. If you want I can give you scripture references for what I just typed. But I think that you already believe that in heaven the faithful are perfected and have no flaws left because they have been changed by God after they died so that sin no longer dominates in their souls and they can no longer be tempted to perform sins.
      I believe that Jesus atonement for his elect gives the elect a righteous standing by before the throne of God.
      I believe that no work of our own will ever, nor could it ever, atone for our sins. Therefore, if the mythical purgatory were to exist, we would never work our way out. We would eternally fall short and never be granted entrance to heaven.
      All you have done, with purgatory, is to extend hopeless efforts before being sent to hell for failure to attain the righteousness that only comes through Christ alone.
      Recall that Jesus said to the thief on the cross..."this day you shall be with me in paradise." Surely, by your philosophy, the thief would spend eons in purgatory before attaining enough suffer points to gain heaven. But, that is not what Jesus declared.
      MC, purgatory is a Roman church myth.

    12. #30
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
      It might be more useful to explain what you believe to be true, rather than simply saying "No. Wrong. Be quiet."
      No...it wouldn't be useful.

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