Pray to be worthy.

Arsenios

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The problem with your explanation--and MCs before it--is that you are laboring to keep the word worthy as the translation, but the verse in question is speaking of being worthy (or whatever it is) of something other than what it is that you want it to be.




Luke 21:36

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Son of man.



It's the orange part, not the blue (which is a result of the other). :)

LUKE 21:36

ἀγρυπνεῖτε δὲ ἐν παντὶ καιρῷ δεόμενοι
Keep on being vigilant in every time praying

ἵνα κατισχύσητε ἐκφυγεῖν ταῦτα πάντα τὰ μέλλοντα γίνεσθαι,
in order that you should be prevailing over all things about to be coming to pass

καὶ σταθῆναι ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.
and to be made to stand before the son of man


You are right...

You are not to stand, but to 'be stood', (it is a passive aorist infinitive) and keeping vigil praying at all times is the means of prevailing in the struggle against all things to come to pass, and if you do this, God will make you to be stood before the Son of Man...

Where did I get "worthy to stand" I wonder...


Arsenios
 

MoreCoffee

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Arsenios

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You got it from the meaning of the word.

OK - That is kata-axios- καταξιωθῆτε - According to worth..

The problem is that I am not finding it here in Luke 21:36

Here it is κατισχύσητε - kata-ischeos - According to strength...

Perhaps a textual variant?

And if a variant, we like to look for a word that will include both... eg both pertain to the meaning...




Arsenios
 

MoreCoffee

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OK - That is kata-axios- καταξιωθῆτε - According to worth..

The problem is that I am not finding it here in Luke 21:36

Here it is κατισχύσητε - kata-ischeos - According to strength...

Perhaps a textual variant?

And if a variant, we like to look for a word that will include both... eg both pertain to the meaning...

Arsenios

αγρυπνειτε [SUP]A[/SUP]δε [SUP]TSB[/SUP]ουν εν παντι καιρω δεομενοι ινα [sup]A[/sup]κατισχυσητε [SUP]TSB[/SUP]καταξιωθητε εκφυγειν [SUP]TSA[/SUP]ταυτα παντα τα μελλοντα γινεσθαι και σταθηναι εμπροσθεν του υιου του ανθρωπου

Variant Tagging Method
The following tags have been applied to those words peculiar to one stream of transmission, or scholarly group which emphasizes a particular variant word. Those words with no tag do not differ in the various printings of the Greek.

T = Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus.
The text used is George Ricker Berry's edition of "The Interlinear Literal Translation of the Greek New Testament." This text is virtually identical to Erasmus 1516, Beza 1598, and the actual Textus Receptus: Elzevir 1633. Berry states that "In the main they are one and the same; and [any] of them may be referred to as the Textus Receptus" (Berry, p.ii).

These early printed Greek New Testaments closely parallel the text of the English King James Authorized Version of 1611, since that version was based closely upon Beza 1598, which differed little from its "Textus Receptus" predecessors. These Textus Receptus editions follow the Byzantine Majority mss., which was predominant during the period of manual copying of Greek New Testament manuscripts.

S = Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
The text used is "h Kainh Diaqhkh: The New Testament. The Greek Text underlying the English Authorised Version of 1611" (London: Trinitarian Bible Society, 1977). This is an unchanged reprint of Scrivener's "The New Testament in the Original Greek according to the Text followed in the Authorised Version" (Cambridge: University Press, 1894, 1902).

Scrivner attempted to reconstruct the Greek text underlying the English 1611 KJV for comparison to the 1881 English R.V. In those places where the KJV followed the Latin Vulgate (John 10:16), Scrivener inserted the greek reading, as opposed to back-translating the Latin to Greek--which would have produced a Greek word with no Greek mss. evidence. Scrivner's work follows the Byzantine Majority texts, and in many places matches the modern Alexandrian based editions.

B = Byzantine Majority
The text is that identified by Freiherr Von Soden, "Die Schriften des Neuen Testaments in ihrer altesten erreichbaren Textgestalt" (Gottingen: Vandenhoeck und Ruprecht, 1911) and Herman C. Hoskier, "Concerning the Text of the Apocalypse" (London: Bernard Quaritch, 1929). This technique of Byzantine identification and weighting, was utilized by Hodges and Farsted in "The Greek New Testament according to the Majority Text" (Nashville: Thomas Nelson, 1982; 1985). It was subsequently utilized by Robinson and Pierpont, resulting in 99.75 percent agreement between the two texts.

The Byzantine Majority text is closely identified with the Textus Receptus editions, and well it should with greater than 98% agreement. As Maurice Robinson pointed out in his edition of the Byzantine Majority: "George Ricker Berry correctly noted that 'in the main they are one and the same; and [any] of them may be referred to as the Textus Receptus' (George Ricker Berry, ed., The Interlinear Literal Translation of the Greek New Testament [New York: Hinds & Noble, 1897], p.ii).

A = Alexandrian
The differences are those identified by United Bible Society 3rd ed., and utilized by modern translations such as NIV and NASB. While these variants come from mss. with less textual evidence than the Byzantine Majority, many of the differences are exactly the same as those identified by the Byzantine Majority and Scrivner. The percentage of variants are quite small and occur mainly in word placement, and spelling. Many of the variations identified are omitted or bracketed words, which is not surprising due to a significantly smaller base of text from this stream of transmission.
 
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Arsenios

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ἀγρυπνεῖτε1 δὲ [...] ἐν παντὶ καιρῷ δεόμενοι ἵνα κατισχύσητε [...] ἐκφυγεῖν ταῦτα πάντα τὰ μέλλοντα γίνεσθαι, καὶ σταθῆναι ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.

αγρυπνειτε δε ουν εν παντι καιρω δεομενοι ινα κατισχυσητε καταξιωθητε εκφυγειν ταυτα παντα τα μελλοντα γινεσθαι και σταθηναι εμπροσθεν του υιου του ανθρωπου



The two texts are identical except for the addition of two words in the Majority Text, which are shown above.

The first is "accordingly" (oun) and the second "accounted according to worthiness" (kat'axiothete)

They are either added or removed, or perhaps the second is either/or, because I have not seen two Greek verbs like that placed back to back in a sentence...

Now the first means "that you be strengthened" (indicative), and the second "That you should be judged according to worthiness" (subjunctive)...

If they were joined by a kai (and) they should be both included, unless that kata stands alone and the verb is axiothete...

But even if so, it is still subjunctive and means "should be deemed worthy", and carries expectation of virtue to be exercised... It does not seem to carry the import of being MADE worthy...

So we can take from this that by vigil in prayer at all times we are strengthened to flee the all things about to come according to (the expectation of) worthiness...

Again, since the additions come through the Majority Text Holy Tradition, the way we deal with them is to find a reconciliation of meaning that includes all the variants, and does not set one against another...

Theologically, worthiness as fallen man in this life cannot be claimed, but we can act according to its expectations...

Interesting pericope...


Arsenios
 

MoreCoffee

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ἀγρυπνεῖτε1 δὲ [...] ἐν παντὶ καιρῷ δεόμενοι ἵνα κατισχύσητε [...] ἐκφυγεῖν ταῦτα πάντα τὰ μέλλοντα γίνεσθαι, καὶ σταθῆναι ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.

αγρυπνειτε δε ουν εν παντι καιρω δεομενοι ινα κατισχυσητε καταξιωθητε εκφυγειν ταυτα παντα τα μελλοντα γινεσθαι και σταθηναι εμπροσθεν του υιου του ανθρωπου



The two texts are identical except for the addition of two words in the Majority Text, which are shown above.

The first is "accordingly" (oun) and the second "accounted according to worthiness" (kat'axiothete)

They are either added or removed, or perhaps the second is either/or, because I have not seen two Greek verbs like that placed back to back in a sentence...

Now the first means "that you be strengthened" (indicative), and the second "That you should be judged according to worthiness" (subjunctive)...

If they were joined by a kai (and) they should be both included, unless that kata stands alone and the verb is axiothete...

But even if so, it is still subjunctive and means "should be deemed worthy", and carries expectation of virtue to be exercised... It does not seem to carry the import of being MADE worthy...

So we can take from this that by vigil in prayer at all times we are strengthened to flee the all things about to come according to (the expectation of) worthiness...

Again, since the additions come through the Majority Text Holy Tradition, the way we deal with them is to find a reconciliation of meaning that includes all the variants, and does not set one against another...

Theologically, worthiness as fallen man in this life cannot be claimed, but we can act according to its expectations...

Interesting pericope...


Arsenios

αγρυπνειτε δε εν παντι καιρω δεομενοι ινα κατισχυσητε εκφυγειν ταυτα παντα τα μελλοντα γινεσθαι και σταθηναι εμπροσθεν του υιου του ανθρωπου (Alexandrian)

αγρυπνειτε ουν εν παντι καιρω δεομενοι ινα καταξιωθητε εκφυγειν παντα τα μελλοντα γινεσθαι και σταθηναι εμπροσθεν του υιου του ανθρωπου (Majority)
 

psalms 91

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Anyone care to puit it in english or is lack of understanding the goal?
 

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Anyone care to puit it in english or is lack of understanding the goal?

Okay.

Majority says: Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man. NKJV

Alexandrian says: But watch at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that will take place, and to stand before the Son of man. RSV
 

Arsenios

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Anyone care to puit it in english or is lack of understanding the goal?

Sorry - I was having a case of tunnel vision!

More Coffee shows the two renderings...

One, the Majority Text family of mss uses: "should be accounted worthy..." to escape...

The other, the Alexandrian family, uses: "are strengthened"... to escape...

So it is "are" vs "should be"...

And "strengthened" vs "accounted worthy"...

So we are seeking a gloss that does both, f
or God Strengthens us
and in this strengthening we overcome demonic powers
because He has accounted us worthy...
by His Strengthening...

The ontology of Salvation...
I am reminded of Christ querying:
"Which is the easier?
To say your 'sins are forgiven?'"
Or to say: "Arise and walk..."



Arsenios
 
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