Pray to be worthy.

Albion · Nov 21, 2018

But only by you. And I don't care awfully much what trolls say in order to be annoying..

MoreCoffee · Nov 21, 2018

Albion said:
I don't care awfully much what trolls say in order to be annoying..

If trolling troubles you stop posting trolling messages. They are inept anyway. Not edifying.

The holy scriptures are edifying.

Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand
before the Son of Man.

Pray to be worthy is humble petition to God for what one does not yet have. It is as far from pride as was the Tax collector's prayer from the Pharisee's. Luke 18:9-14

Arsenios · Nov 21, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand
before the Son of Man.

Pray to be worthy is humble petition to God for what one does not yet have. It is as far from pride as was the Tax collector's prayer from the Pharisee's. Luke 18:9-14

Well, there is the difference then: praying to be "made worthy" vs praying to be "deemed according to worthiness"...

For us, the greatest saint in this life is unworthy, but by imitating worthiness, he ever seeks to be accounted worthy nonetheless... In that respect, ol' Menno is right - We do not have assurrance... However, what we do have, is conditional assurrance, that our keeping the Salvation given us is in our hands, yet is out of our control... A conditional already saved, and yet not yet saved... Poised at the intersection of time and eternity... Utterly in our own hands, yet utterly never in our own hands...

We utterly hold both sides of these seeming anomalies ever before us in our walk in the Way of Christ...

Arsenios

MoreCoffee · Nov 21, 2018

Arsenios said:
Well, there is the difference then: praying to be "made worthy" vs praying to be "deemed according to worthiness"...

Pray for both, to be made worthy is what we all yearn for, to be freed from sin and freed from temptation to do what is sinful is what heaven is made to be for us. Pray to be judged worthy is what we need because we are not yet worthy but we need to be judged worthy in Christ. In Christ the faithful are worthy, the end is accomplished in Christ. So pray for both.

For us, the greatest saint in this life is unworthy, but by imitating worthiness, he ever seeks to be accounted worthy nonetheless... In that respect, ol' Menno is right - We do not have assurrance... However, what we do have, is conditional assurrance, that our keeping the Salvation given us is in our hands, yet is out of our control... A conditional already saved, and yet not yet saved... Poised at the intersection of time and eternity... Utterly in our own hands, yet utterly never in our own hands...

We utterly hold both sides of these seeming anomalies ever before us in our walk in the Way of Christ...

Arsenios

Arsenios · Dec 3, 2018

We have an eeriely Protestant sentiment in the Thanks-Giving Prayers following Holy Communion, wherein we give thanks to God for ACCOUNTING us worthy, ALTHOUGH unworthy, to receive the Gift...

Yet we pray to be made worthy of the Gift...

The Faith is a Mystery, not a logical system of thought...

"Narrow the Way" between neither worthy nor unworthy...

That way being humility...

Arsenios

MennoSota · Dec 3, 2018

Arsenios said:
We have an eeriely Protestant sentiment in the Thanks-Giving Prayers following Holy Communion, wherein we give thanks to God for ACCOUNTING us worthy, ALTHOUGH unworthy, to receive the Gift...

Yet we pray to be made worthy of the Gift...

The Faith is a Mystery, not a logical system of thought...

"Narrow the Way" between neither worthy nor unworthy...

That way being humility...

Arsenios

We agree. Eastern Orthodoxy is not logical.

NewCreation435 · Dec 3, 2018

If I am worthy it is because of what Jesus did and not what I did. For on my own, I am not worthy at all. I am a sinner saved by grace and grateful for it

Romanos · Dec 3, 2018

Let us keep in mind that while we are free to disagree, flames are not needed.

Arsenios · Dec 3, 2018

jsimms435 said:
If I am worthy it is because of what Jesus did and not what I did. For on my own, I am not worthy at all. I am a sinner saved by grace and grateful for it

Our own unworthiness we all affirm...

And...

The Worthiness as well...
Of the Body and the Blood...
Of the Lamb we eat and drink...
In each of us who partakes of the Gifts...

Arsenios

MoreCoffee · Dec 6, 2018

Does anybody object to praying to God asking to be made worthy to stand before Christ?

Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand
before the Son of Man.

Albion · Dec 6, 2018

No, but it has nothing to do with that mistranslation of Luke 21:36. This was explained earlier by several posters.

Andrew · Dec 6, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand
before the Son of Man.

I believe that all faithful believers in faith faithfully pray constantly in their good conscious consciously

In other words, the Lord hears our prayers before we even pray them [emoji50]
...and he knows us better than we know ourselves, I have no clue how many hairs on my head, but He knows the exact amount.

Arsenios · Dec 6, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
Does anybody object to praying to God asking to be made worthy to stand before Christ?

Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand
before the Son of Man.

Well, it does say "Be accounted worthy"...

To think that one is actually MADE WORTHY lays the basis for egregious egotism...

To be accounted worthy unworthily carries the grace of humility, you see...

Arsenios

MoreCoffee · Dec 6, 2018

Arsenios said:
Well, it does say "Be accounted worthy"...

To think that one is actually MADE WORTHY lays the basis for egregious egotism...

To be accounted worthy unworthily carries the grace of humility, you see...

Arsenios

"be worthy" "be made worthy" and "be accounted worthy" are all possible meanings for the word in Greek but "be worthy" is the closest without adding extra words. To be made worthy is not egoism, it is grace. To be accounted worthy is not egoism nor humility but grace and "worthy" is grace. No one acquires any good things but from the hand of God who is the giver of every good gift.

Arsenios · Dec 7, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
"be worthy" "be made worthy" and "be accounted worthy" are all possible meanings for the word in Greek but "be worthy" is the closest without adding extra words. To be made worthy is not egoism, it is grace. To be accounted worthy is not egoism nor humility but grace and "worthy" is grace. No one acquires any good things but from the hand of God who is the giver of every good gift.

καταξιοω

to account worthy, judge worthy

καταξιωθῆτε is the 2nd person plural passive indicative - To BE judged or accounted worthy...

"according to worthiness" is the basic sense of kata-axios...

So that theologically, it means that those engaged in the struggle of overcoming demonic powers and principalities, however they are faring in this struggle, be judged according to worthiness, even though they know they are not worthy, because they have not overecome them, and even when they do, it is not they themselves who succeed, but God Who makes their struggle efficacious...

Or as the Psalmist sings: "For in Thy Sight shall no man living be justified..."

And Paul himself only boasts in his infirmities - The "man he knew" who ascended into the third heaven was worthy, as he records, of that event of some 14 years back, but not the one now writing the Pastoral Epistles...

Arsenios

Arsenios · Dec 9, 2018

The trap of course is to think one's self to be worthy...
"I knew a man..."
This is how it is done...

Because One is Holy...
One is Lord...
To the Glory of God the Father...

It is a fairly minor difference in our Churches, MC...
The RCC believes the Saints have an EXCESS of Merit...
EOC Saints will only join Paul as being the worst of sinners...

I can tell you this - Looking back on a long and extravegantly prodigal life - To have persevered as I did is a wonder to me, and being far from God and a denier of God's very existence, I was close to God but could not see His Hand until He showed it to me, and in that action transformed everything I am...

Yet the self we are to deny...

We can give our self no merit...

And we must ever struggle to gain the right to say with Paul: "Not I, but Christ within me..."

And who among us can truthfully say such a thing?

Those guys are hard to find...

Arsenios

Albion · Dec 9, 2018

Arsenios said:
καταξιοω

to account worthy, judge worthy

καταξιωθῆτε is the 2nd person plural passive indicative - To BE judged or accounted worthy...

"according to worthiness" is the basic sense of kata-axios...

So that theologically, it means that those engaged in the struggle of overcoming demonic powers and principalities, however they are faring in this struggle, be judged according to worthiness, even though they know they are not worthy, because they have not overecome them, and even when they do, it is not they themselves who succeed, but God Who makes their struggle efficacious...

Or as the Psalmist sings: "For in Thy Sight shall no man living be justified..."

And Paul himself only boasts in his infirmities - The "man he knew" who ascended into the third heaven was worthy, as he records, of that event of some 14 years back, but not the one now writing the Pastoral Epistles...

Arsenios

The problem with your explanation--and MCs before it--is that you are laboring to keep the word worthy as the translation, but the verse in question is speaking of being worthy (or whatever it is) of something other than what it is that you want it to be.

Luke 21:36

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Son of man.

It's the orange part, not the blue (which is a result of the other).

.

MoreCoffee · Dec 9, 2018

Albion said:
The problem with your explanation--and MCs before it--is that you are laboring to keep the word worthy as the translation, but the verse in question is speaking of being worthy (or whatever it is) of something other than what it is that you want it to be.

Luke 21:36

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass and to stand before the Son of man.

It's the orange part, not the blue (which is a result of the other).

It's the orange and the blue. That is, And so, be vigilant, praying at all times, so that you may be held worthy to escape from all these things, which are in the future, and to stand before the Son of man."

Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand before the Son of Man.

Albion · Dec 10, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
Luke 21: 36 Be watchful and pray constantly,
that you may be worthy to stand before the Son of Man.

Why would you edit out most of the verse? Well, forget that question; we already know the answer.

………………………………………………………………………...

Luke 21:36

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

or in case you prefer the NASB--

36 But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.

.

MoreCoffee · Dec 10, 2018

Albion said:
Why would you edit out most of the verse?

It's good of you to ask rather than assume some wicked motive on my part.

The answer is that the portion of the verse that I gave as a quote was the Gospel Acclimation from the Sunday nearest to the date of the first post in this thread.

Sunday 18th November 2018.

Well, forget that question; we already know the answer.

………………………………………………………………………...

Luke 21:36

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

or in case you prefer the NASB--

36 But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man.

Pray to be worthy.

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God is good.

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Matt 18:15

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