The problem with "Christian" music today

MennoSota · Nov 13, 2018

At the risk of gnashing teeth... I submit an empty hymn that people still love to sing: "I Serve A Risen Savior (He Lives)
Lyrics as proof of empty theology:
1

I serve a risen Savior
**He’s in the world today.
I know that He is living,
**Whatever men may say.
I see His hand of mercy;
**I hear His voice of cheer;
And just the time I need Him
**He’s always near.*He lives, He lives, Christ Jesus lives today!
He walks with me and talks with me along life’s narrow way.
He lives, He lives, salvation to impart!
You ask me how I know He lives?
****He lives within my heart.

2

In all the world around me
**I see His loving care,
And though my heart grows weary,
**I never will despair;
I know that He is leading,
**Through all the stormy blast;
The day of His appearing
**Will come at last.

3

Rejoice, rejoice, O Christian,
**Lift up your voice and sing
Eternal hallelujahs
**To Jesus Christ the King!
The Hope of all who seek Him,
**The Help of all who find,
None other is so loving,
**So good and kind.

MennoSota · Nov 13, 2018

Another theologically empty hymn that people love to sing...
"Softly and Tenderly"
Softly and tenderly Jesus is calling,
Calling for you and for me;
See, on the portals He’s waiting and watching,
Watching for you and for me.

Refrain:
Come home, come home,
You who are weary, come home;
Earnestly, tenderly, Jesus is calling,
Calling, O sinner, come home!

Why should we tarry when Jesus is pleading,
Pleading for you and for me?
Why should we linger and heed not His mercies,
Mercies for you and for me?

Time is now fleeting, the moments are passing,
Passing from you and from me;
Shadows are gathering, deathbeds are coming,
Coming for you and for me.

Oh, for the wonderful love He has promised,
Promised for you and for me!
Though we have sinned, He has mercy and pardon,
Pardon for you and for me.

Andrew · Nov 13, 2018

Albion said:
Another Contemporary song/hymn. What God is being described or addressed?

So here I go again, again
I let myself get spread so thin
But I can see right through my skin
And I don't like what I'm finding in my heart

So many different voices call
And I try hard to please them all
I run in circles 'til I fall
So I'm falling on my knees and praying

Please, Please, Please only You, only You
Please, Please, Please take my heart, and make it true
Let everything I say and everything I do
Please, please only you
Please only you

For every moment of my time
For every thought that fills my mind
For every melody and rhyme
This is the prayer that I'll be praying

Please, Please, Please only You, only You
Please, Please, Please take my heart, and make it true
Let everything I say and everything I do

This is what it means to be
The reason why I live and breathe
To know that I am totally existing for Your pleasure

I'm still learning but I know
As this becomes my only goal
The more I find my heart and soul is filled up with joy when I

I please only you
I please only you
Please only you

Wow, no mention of the Lord whatsoever

ImaginaryDay2 · Nov 13, 2018

I checked out where the person could see through their skin :dead1:
It seems some of these artists should be checked for clinical depression (not meant as a joke...)

Albion · Nov 13, 2018

MennoSota said:
Another theologically empty hymn that people love to sing...
"Softly and Tenderly"
Softly and tenderly Jesus is calling,
Calling for you and for me;
See, on the portals He’s waiting and watching,
Watching for you and for me.

……..

Here's an interesting commentary on that allegedly "theologically empty" hymn.

https://www.umcdiscipleship.org/resources/history-of-hymns-softly-and-tenderly-jesus-is-calling

tango · Nov 13, 2018

Albion said:
Another Contemporary song/hymn. What God is being described or addressed?

So here I go again, again
I let myself get spread so thin
But I can see right through my skin
And I don't like what I'm finding in my heart

So many different voices call
And I try hard to please them all
I run in circles 'til I fall
So I'm falling on my knees and praying

Please, Please, Please only You, only You
Please, Please, Please take my heart, and make it true
Let everything I say and everything I do
Please, please only you
Please only you

For every moment of my time
For every thought that fills my mind
For every melody and rhyme
This is the prayer that I'll be praying

Please, Please, Please only You, only You
Please, Please, Please take my heart, and make it true
Let everything I say and everything I do

This is what it means to be
The reason why I live and breathe
To know that I am totally existing for Your pleasure

I'm still learning but I know
As this becomes my only goal
The more I find my heart and soul is filled up with joy when I

I please only you
I please only you
Please only you

This could almost be sung in any kind of temple without really finding it doesn't work.

It's an interesting dilemma in many ways, when we also think about the context. I might say "I love you" to my wife but those same words taken out of context could lead to all sorts of inappropriate places. I love my father and my brother but in a very different way. And to say "I love you" to my friend's 12-year-old daughter might get me arrested even though, in a manner of speaking, I do love her and care about her. In the same way the congregation of a Christian church might say "we worship you, Lord" with the reasonable expectation that "Lord" refers to Jesus Christ, while a Hindu or Satanist congregation might use the exact same phrase but consider "Lord" to refer to Vishnu or Lucifer.

That said it is concerning when songs are so vague that they could be plucked out of a Christian church and sung word-for-word by a Satanist congregation without necessarily raising any eyebrows. While "I love you Lord" might be sincerely said by a Christian and a Hindu at the same time, one would hope that songs of praise to Yahweh would incorporate more than just this.

It's said that we worship God for who he is and praise God for what he has done. On that basis it doesn't seem like a huge leap of faith to figure that a song of worship will include some elements that describe who God is rather than merely repeating "we worship you", and a song of praise will include some elements of what God has done rather than merely repeating "we praise you".

"We praise you, Lord, for your mighty works" would work in just about any congregation of just about any faith. After all, most followers of any deity will ascribe some works to that deity. But Krishna didn't raise Jesus from the dead, Lucifer didn't part the Red Sea so the Israelites could escape, Ganesh didn't die to save us from our sin, and so on. If we are singing a song about praising our Lord for his mighty works it doesn't seem like it would hurt to mention a few of them.

MennoSota · Nov 13, 2018

Albion said:
Here's an interesting commentary on that allegedly "theologically empty" hymn.

https://www.umcdiscipleship.org/resources/history-of-hymns-softly-and-tenderly-jesus-is-calling

You prove my point about Arminians and their songs.
Notice, there is no theology in the song. There is only a sentimentality for Arminians... especially dispensationalist Arminians.

MennoSota · Nov 13, 2018

tango said:
This could almost be sung in any kind of temple without really finding it doesn't work.

It's an interesting dilemma in many ways, when we also think about the context. I might say "I love you" to my wife but those same words taken out of context could lead to all sorts of inappropriate places. I love my father and my brother but in a very different way. And to say "I love you" to my friend's 12-year-old daughter might get me arrested even though, in a manner of speaking, I do love her and care about her. In the same way the congregation of a Christian church might say "we worship you, Lord" with the reasonable expectation that "Lord" refers to Jesus Christ, while a Hindu or Satanist congregation might use the exact same phrase but consider "Lord" to refer to Vishnu or Lucifer.

That said it is concerning when songs are so vague that they could be plucked out of a Christian church and sung word-for-word by a Satanist congregation without necessarily raising any eyebrows. While "I love you Lord" might be sincerely said by a Christian and a Hindu at the same time, one would hope that songs of praise to Yahweh would incorporate more than just this.

It's said that we worship God for who he is and praise God for what he has done. On that basis it doesn't seem like a huge leap of faith to figure that a song of worship will include some elements that describe who God is rather than merely repeating "we worship you", and a song of praise will include some elements of what God has done rather than merely repeating "we praise you".

"We praise you, Lord, for your mighty works" would work in just about any congregation of just about any faith. After all, most followers of any deity will ascribe some works to that deity. But Krishna didn't raise Jesus from the dead, Lucifer didn't part the Red Sea so the Israelites could escape, Ganesh didn't die to save us from our sin, and so on. If we are singing a song about praising our Lord for his mighty works it doesn't seem like it would hurt to mention a few of them.

It's like singing "Silent Night." Anyone can sing it without any theological opinion.

Albion · Nov 13, 2018

MennoSota said:
It's like singing "Silent Night." Anyone can sing it without any theological opinion.

Not unless he doesn't know what any of the lyrics to Silent Night mean.

MennoSota · Nov 13, 2018

Albion said:
Not unless he doesn't know what any of the lyrics to Silent Night mean.

It was written by a universalist. Nothing to see here. Just hug your neighbor and sway...

psalms 91 · Nov 13, 2018

Personally I like the song and think it brings the Christmas spirit to a holy place. It seems to me that you are picking on something that really isnt bad at all

Andrew · Nov 13, 2018

psalms 91 said:
Personally I like the song and think it brings the Christmas spirit to a holy place. It seems to me that you are picking on something that really isnt bad at all

Exactly. I sing Christmas songs all year around but a few like "Rudolph the red nosed reindeer" and "Frosty the snow man" I never sing

Albion · Nov 13, 2018

MennoSota said:
It was written by a universalist. Nothing to see here. Just hug your neighbor and sway...

It must be different in your church. I have never been present when Silent Night was sung as the people hugged each other and swayed to the music.

The lyrics were written by a Roman Catholic priest, by the way.

.

Andrew · Nov 13, 2018

"In the Garden of Edin" (Contemporary Christian rock)

In a gadda da vida, honey
Don't you know that I love you
In a gadda da vida, baby
Don't you know that I'll always be true

Oh, won't you come with me
And take my haaaaaaand
Oh, won't you come with me
And walk this laaaaaand
Please take my haaaaand

(Let me tell you baby)
In a gadda da vida, honey
Don't you know that I'm lovin' you
In a gadda da vida, baby

Don't you know that I'll always be true
Oh, won't you come with me
And take my haaaaaand
Oh, won't you come with me
And walk this laaaaaand

*long instrumental*

MennoSota · Nov 13, 2018

Albion said:
It must be different in your church. I have never been present when Silent Night was sung as the people hugged each other and swayed to the music.

The lyrics were written by a Roman Catholic priest, by the way.

.

Catholic, Universalist, same thing...[emoji41]

tango · Nov 13, 2018

psalms 91 said:
Personally I like the song and think it brings the Christmas spirit to a holy place. It seems to me that you are picking on something that really isnt bad at all

I don't see a problem with liking the song as a piece of music but I'm not sure the romanticisation of a night that was holy but was also most likely anything but silent and tranquil "brings the Christmas spirit to a holy place". We like to think of the birth of Jesus happening in a stable that's nice and clean, with maybe a single cow and a single sheep looking on wondering what was happening as a neatly presented Joseph and a perfectly presented Mary hold the baby Jesus. But most stables aren't like that, they don't feature perfectly clean straw and animals that fall silent as if on demand. The chances are the animals in there smelled pretty bad, there would most likely have been all sorts of unmentionables in the straw. Mary had just given birth so probably wasn't perfectly presented, and they were both undertaking a very long journey and ended up spending the night in the barn full of animals and animal excrement. Very little like the romantic scene pictured by Christmas carols.

And of course all this was by design - the servant King arrived about as far as it's humanly possible to be from the great fanfare that so many were expecting.

psalms 91 · Nov 14, 2018

tango said:
I don't see a problem with liking the song as a piece of music but I'm not sure the romanticisation of a night that was holy but was also most likely anything but silent and tranquil "brings the Christmas spirit to a holy place". We like to think of the birth of Jesus happening in a stable that's nice and clean, with maybe a single cow and a single sheep looking on wondering what was happening as a neatly presented Joseph and a perfectly presented Mary hold the baby Jesus. But most stables aren't like that, they don't feature perfectly clean straw and animals that fall silent as if on demand. The chances are the animals in there smelled pretty bad, there would most likely have been all sorts of unmentionables in the straw. Mary had just given birth so probably wasn't perfectly presented, and they were both undertaking a very long journey and ended up spending the night in the barn full of animals and animal excrement. Very little like the romantic scene pictured by Christmas carols.

And of course all this was by design - the servant King arrived about as far as it's humanly possible to be from the great fanfare that so many were expecting.

So whats the problem? If it brings people to a holy place within then it is annointed and as far as how and where Jesus came, like everything else concerning Him it was by Gods plan so while I agree that a stable is often what you say there is no harm in a song that ignores all that. I know in secular music we dont bring in the unpleasant either

tango · Nov 14, 2018

psalms 91 said:
So whats the problem? If it brings people to a holy place within then it is annointed and as far as how and where Jesus came, like everything else concerning Him it was by Gods plan so while I agree that a stable is often what you say there is no harm in a song that ignores all that. I know in secular music we dont bring in the unpleasant either

The trouble with reasoning like "if it brings people to a holy place within" is that it doesn't really mean anything. It's one of those subjective phrases that leaves anything and everything being "anointed" because it makes someone feel good.

There's nothing wrong with liking a song - I like quite a lot of secular songs - but to regard them as anointed because they make me feel good is absurd. A song that paints a rose-colored picture of a really rather grim reality dilutes the very nature of what Jesus was about. Perhaps many don't like to think of the king of kings being born amidst farm animals and all the unpleasantness that surrounds being in a working barn but to whitewash the nature of Christ's birth is in many ways to dilute what his entire mission was about. He was the lowest of the low in just about every respect - he said those who wish to be great must be the servant of all and every single aspect of his life, including his very birth, was consistent with that.

I wouldn't tell someone not to sing a song they liked, whatever the nature of the song. It just seems a shame when songs get ingrained in tradition to a point that something unpleasant becomes romanticised and we allow a picture to be painted that suggests Jesus was born in a barn that was presented just as it would be if a head of state were visiting.

psalms 91 · Nov 14, 2018

tango said:
The trouble with reasoning like "if it brings people to a holy place within" is that it doesn't really mean anything. It's one of those subjective phrases that leaves anything and everything being "anointed" because it makes someone feel good.

There's nothing wrong with liking a song - I like quite a lot of secular songs - but to regard them as anointed because they make me feel good is absurd. A song that paints a rose-colored picture of a really rather grim reality dilutes the very nature of what Jesus was about. Perhaps many don't like to think of the king of kings being born amidst farm animals and all the unpleasantness that surrounds being in a working barn but to whitewash the nature of Christ's birth is in many ways to dilute what his entire mission was about. He was the lowest of the low in just about every respect - he said those who wish to be great must be the servant of all and every single aspect of his life, including his very birth, was consistent with that.

I wouldn't tell someone not to sing a song they liked, whatever the nature of the song. It just seems a shame when songs get ingrained in tradition to a point that something unpleasant becomes romanticised and we allow a picture to be painted that suggests Jesus was born in a barn that was presented just as it would be if a head of state were visiting.

It is more than a feeling but I have a feeling either you know that or else I am wasting my time, that song is reverant and is annointed. You can believe whatever you choose but that song is not secular and is very much in keeping with the idea of Jesus birth. You really want to get into a deiscussion then prove Jesus was born on Dec 25 or evenm in that month. I believe He was conceived around that time and was born around the feast of trumpets.

Andrew · Nov 14, 2018

I for one am happy that Jesus was born

The problem with "Christian" music today

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Matt 18:15

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... and you shall live ...

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Matt 18:15

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Matt 18:15

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... and you shall live ...

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Matt 18:15