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  • Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
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    Christian Theology - Thread: Titles Used by Clergymen.

    1. #21
      tango's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
      I don't think anyone truly belonging to God should have titles and be called things like doctor or reverend either. Gods true people shouldn't wish to be reverenced in any way, let alone have reverend in front of their names. Which of the apostles were called reverend? They are addressed by their first names. No reverend or right reverend or most reverend. Just John, Peter, James, Paul etc, even Jesus wasn't called reverend Jesus. And we should call no man on earth our father, as Jesus said in Matthew 22. We have one father, our father in heaven.

      Matthew 22

      And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
      Sure, within the confines of the church the pastor is John, not the Rev Dr John Doe. But when writing a formal letter to the pastor from outside the church it doesn't hurt to use courtesy title. Just as the person I call John might receive a letter addressed to Mr J. Doe, so they might receive a letter addressed to Rev J. Doe, Dr J. Doe, Rev Dr J. Doe, or similar. In theory if they were a retired military man they might get a letter to Rev Brig J. Doe (Retd) or similar. To me that's just about showing professional courtesy rather than kowtowing.

      Within the Church of England there are a range of titles from the regular Reverend to Very Reverend, Most Reverend etc. I never figured out which title went with which position and frankly never cared enough to look it up, but I'd agree with the assertion that it creates the implication that "I'm more reverend than you are".
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
      Within the Church of England there are a range of titles from the regular Reverend to Very Reverend, Most Reverend etc. I never figured out which title went with which position and frankly never cared enough to look it up, but I'd agree with the assertion that it creates the implication that "I'm more reverend than you are".
      Interestingly enough, I don't find that it does. Not in practice. And of course these are not what you call any cleric but rather how they may be addressed, if formality is appropriate, such as on an envelope or letter.

      The Rev. (or Rev. Mr.) XX = Deacon or Priest

      The Very Rev. XX = Archdeacon (priest with certain responsibilities)

      The Rt. Rev. XX = Bishop

      The Most Rev. XX = Presiding Bishop (not always used in Anglican churches; it is more often an RC form of address)


      In practice, these people are usually called Father Jones or Father Mike and bishops as Bishop Smith.







      .
      Last edited by Albion; 11-09-2018 at 10:26 AM.

    3. #23
      marhig is offline New Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      What do you think of this passage:
      I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me. Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, as I teach them everywhere in every church.
      1 Corinthians 4:14-17
      Where does it say that Timothy should be reverenced there? And given the name of reverend, right reverand or most reverend, or even holy father?

    4. #24
      marhig is offline New Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
      Sure, within the confines of the church the pastor is John, not the Rev Dr John Doe. But when writing a formal letter to the pastor from outside the church it doesn't hurt to use courtesy title. Just as the person I call John might receive a letter addressed to Mr J. Doe, so they might receive a letter addressed to Rev J. Doe, Dr J. Doe, Rev Dr J. Doe, or similar. In theory if they were a retired military man they might get a letter to Rev Brig J. Doe (Retd) or similar. To me that's just about showing professional courtesy rather than kowtowing.

      Within the Church of England there are a range of titles from the regular Reverend to Very Reverend, Most Reverend etc. I never figured out which title went with which position and frankly never cared enough to look it up, but I'd agree with the assertion that it creates the implication that "I'm more reverend than you are".
      No preacher should be given the title reverend, very reverend or most reverend, or holy father, these titles are manmade! None of the apostles were called these things. They were all brethren and they were humble and lowly, they were called by their first names.

    5. #25
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      I don't know many people who use "holy father" when speaking of clergy, but father IS Biblical, such as in "Father Abraham".

      John 8:56: Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.

      And, if you ask me, "Reverend" is less imposing than"Apostle", which is what those early disciples of Christ were called in order to honor them above other ministers.






      .
      Last edited by Albion; 11-10-2018 at 07:28 AM.

    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      I don't know many people who use "holy father" when speaking of clergy, but father IS Biblical, such as in "Father Abraham".

      John 8:56: Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.

      And, if you ask me, "Reverend" is less imposing than"Apostle", which is what those early disciples of Christ were called in order to honor them above other ministers.






      .
      I never read it as being a title to be used alongside his name. I thought it was more descriptive of him being the one God used to build His people up.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by marhig View Post
      Where does it say that Timothy should be reverenced there? And given the name of reverend, right reverand or most reverend, or even holy father?
      Saint Paul is the author of the passage so saint Timothy doesn't come into it as far as I can see, except as saint Paul's beloved and faithful child in the Lord.
      I [Paul] do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you [the Christians in the Church at Corinth] as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I [Paul] became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I [Paul] urge you, then, be imitators of me. Therefore I [Paul] sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ, as I [Paul] teach them everywhere in every church.
      1 Corinthians 4:14-17
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

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