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    Christian Theology - Thread: The "What" and "Why" of "Sacraments"

    1. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      Could we take what we already have discussed and identify any or all possible sacraments?

      it would depend upon the definition.... denominations define and understand this VERY differently.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      Almost every Christian church or denomination acknowledges some Sacraments, but the matter is usually unclear to the average church member. He or she simply participates in what the church puts before them.

      What makes any ritual be a Sacrament? How many are there and how would we know?
      When Jesus/God says "do this", we do it.
      Many teachings of church denominations, pre-reformation, were created to keep people in the church out of fear they would lose their salvation. Both communion and baptism are used as fear tactics in these denominations. It's really quite sad.

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      When Jesus/God says "do this", we do it.
      Many teachings of church denominations, pre-reformation, were created to keep people in the church out of fear they would lose their salvation. Both communion and baptism are used as fear tactics in these denominations. It's really quite sad.
      If you say so. But are they sacraments?

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      That slight of hand edit was the only way your post could pretend to be adding something informative about denominations that have no ordinances or sacraments at all.
      Get over yourself. I responded to the portion that I was interested in replying to, in part because I had already posted myself the information you are afraid you wont get credit for (post 9 comes before post 20. See how that works??). And I followed proper rules of grammar in doing so. If you couldnt figure out what was going on, I am sure others could.

    5. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      ...I am sure others could.
      Yes, I am sure of that too. Others can figure it out. Post #7 comes before post #9. Even a child can figure that out. Post #20 is simply a reminder and a correction of the misleading style and content of post #9.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    6. #26
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      OK folks, the definitions of "sacrament"--and the term used--do vary between the denominations. But having noted that, we have had different people here mention that a sacrament is generally considered to be a means of grace, that it must have been instituted by Christ himself, and that the administration of the sacrament uses--as Christ used--physical matter in the administration of the sacrament.

      Probably most of us would agree that it is not too controversial to say that Baptism and Communion are widely considered to meet those criteria and are considered to be sacraments of the Gospel in most Christian churches.

      Are there other sacraments?

    7. #27
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      If you say so. But are they sacraments?
      Is the term ever used in scripture?
      https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/sacraments/

    8. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Is the term ever used in scripture?
      https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/sacraments/
      No, but as you are aware, there are plenty of terms that the church uses and has used that are not in scripture, either. Trinity. Millennium. Rapture, to name a few.

      The word comes from the Roman description of something signified, especially in the case of emblems displayed by the military. It does not come from sacred (which is why I think that those Christians of the Baptistic tradition are making a mistake to insist upon the word ordinances instead, even if the understanding of the nature of the sacrament -- or ordinance -- is different from that in the older denominations).

    9. #29
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      No, but as you are aware, there are plenty of terms that the church uses and has used that are not in scripture, either. Trinity. Millennium. Rapture, to name a few.

      The word comes from the Roman description of something signified, especially in the case of emblems displayed by the military. It does not come from sacred (which is why I think that those Christians of the Baptistic tradition are making a mistake to insist upon the word ordinances instead, even if the understanding of the nature of the sacrament -- or ordinance -- is different from that in the older denominations).
      Correct, does that give license to the mystical elements that some denominations give to their sacraments?
      Once again, I point out that the denominationalism has caused communion and baptism to be used as weapons of fear in order to hold congregants in those churches.

    10. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Correct, does that give license to the mystical elements that some denominations give to their sacraments?
      Well, I didn't want that to be automatically part of the discussion. The non-mystical view of the sacraments (if we can put it that way) which is held by some denominations is as much a part of this as any other. Those churches (the non-mystical elements ones) do observe some of these things/rituals/ceremonies/whatever and place a lot of importance on them, too.

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