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  • Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
    Results 51 to 56 of 56

    Christian Theology - Thread: The "What" and "Why" of "Sacraments"

    1. #51
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      When it was said by the leaders of what is called the Radical Reformation that the sacraments which the church had practiced since the time of the Apostles were not important as channels of Grace, something had to be conjured up as an excuse for those people to continue to go through the motions of administering them.

      I think you are onto something when you question the idea of them being not important but, well, they are important...sort of.

      But it has to be remembered that this is the position taken by only an extremist fringe of the Reformation that was reviled as nuts by mainline Protestants and as heretical by Catholics. Most Protestants retained the two most obvious sacraments that clearly were instituted by Christ.



      .
      Unfortunately for you, we don't read of the alchemy being practiced by the Apostles. We read about baptism and communion in the early church, but neither was practiced as mystical like the Roman and EO church has practiced them. Both turned the sacraments into political fear mongering designed to keep the populace at bay. Thankfully the ability to read the Bible gave people the opportunity to see how evil the two churches have acted in abusing baptism and communion. The Lutheran Church, not knowing any better, followed the same power struggle and adopted similarily bad ideas bent on control. Their political dominance was shorter lived and restricted in scope, but still abusive of baptism and communion as a control mechanism.
      The thing the anabaptists got right was the separation of church and state so that baptism and communion we're no longer used and abused as a power trip to control the masses. Baptism and communion were restored back to their original purpose and the abusive churches attempted to physically kill the anabaptists in fear they were losing power over the people.

    2. #52
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Who is this fringe? In the USA the largest non-Catholic denomination is the Southern Baptists after them is the United Methodists followed by American Baptist Churches (USA), Churches of Christ, Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, ...
      Well, that's quite a diverse group you've named there. The term (Radical Reformation) is used to refer to the Anabaptist types.

      Wouldn't a lot of these Baptist and Baptist like churches be in the "fringe" that you mentioned?
      The Baptists are relatives of the Reformation-era Anabaptists and Puritans, but not identical to them.

    3. #53
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      Okay, what shall we say about Confirmation? It is practiced in the Protestant churches but not as a sacrament; and it is considered to be a sacrament by the Catholic churches, but as a sacrament, there is hardly any reference to it in Scripture, let alone any instituting of a ceremony by Christ. And no physical elements?

    4. #54
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      Okay, what shall we say about Confirmation? It is practiced in the Protestant churches but not as a sacrament; and it is considered to be a sacrament by the Catholic churches, but as a sacrament, there is hardly any reference to it in Scripture, let alone any instituting of a ceremony by Christ. And no physical elements?
      The physical elements are oil for anointing, laying on hands, and audible vocal prayer.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    5. #55
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      Right. Chrism. And the laying on of hands is usually made to be one of the physical elements, just as with Holy Orders.

      It is the absence of a clear statement or act of institution by Christ that poses the bigger problem (in the view of some people).

    6. #56
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      Okay, what shall we say about Confirmation? It is practiced in the Protestant churches but not as a sacrament; and it is considered to be a sacrament by the Catholic churches, but as a sacrament, there is hardly any reference to it in Scripture, let alone any instituting of a ceremony by Christ. And no physical elements?
      Confirmation has no biblical root. It is not commissioned by God. It may act as a denominational teaching element, but it does nothing to secure one's spirit with God.

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