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    Denomination & Faith Movement Discussions - Thread: Pastor pretends to be homeless in front of his Church

    1. #1
      DHoffmann's Avatar
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      Pastor pretends to be homeless in front of his Church

      This made me tear up, very powerful and true.

    2. Likes Krissy Cakes, psalms 91 liked this post
    3. #2
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      I "get it" - and that's valid.


      But I think it's overly simple. Homelessness has SKYROCKETED in the past few years..... here in California, especially in cities very big hearted (?) like San Diego and San Francisco, it has gotten SO prevelent that whole neighbors stink of urine and worse, sidewalks and parks entirely overrun and people can't even pass through them... shopping centers and malls have had to be closed down.... even health crisises have resulted (including in San Deigo last year).


      Yes, SOME are homeless because of the absurdly high cost of living, so taht even those who are working can't afford a place to live. YES, that exists! But I think that's the tip of the iceberg.... and frankly, we've always had that problem. In the city where I live (won't name it), we have a large selter, open 24/7, year around - and it ain't bad - and there are resoures there for all kinds of help. It is never full. It is never at capacity! Why? To get in, one must undergo a test for illegal drugs ... and those with mental illnesses are encouraged to accept help... and illegal activities (like prostitution and drug dealing) is not allowed in the selter. I think we have a problem much bigger than good people sweezed out of the housing market. BTW, our city also has thousands of apartments - all subsidzed - rents are in relation to income, but to live there.... um..... same problem. Our church helps sponsor an organization that takes FAMILIES (must have kids, not necessarily two parents) and gives them extensive job training with several local businesses and government agencies, GIVES them a nice apartment (free until they begin working) even supplies free child care. It's very expensive - and our church helps fund it - they don't have a waiting list, most families are not willing to submit to the drug tests and the "rules" I think the problem is bigger than good people being sqeezed out of the housing market.


      I think the whole "empower not enable" thing plays into this.... some. I love their heart, but some may actually be empowering a bad situation and keep some from facing up to the reality and getting the help they need - whether that's education, job training, mental help, help with addictions, or whatever. And meanwhile, it's SKYROCKETING.





      .
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    4. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      This made me tear up, very powerful and true.
      Very powerful indeed.



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    6. #4
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      We are commanded to help the poor, not figure out if they should be helped or not. I dont remember Jesus asking why they got that way or refusing to give because it might empower them
      Isaiah 40:31

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      Quote Originally Posted by psalms 91 View Post
      We are commanded to help the poor, not figure out if they should be helped or not. I dont remember Jesus asking why they got that way or refusing to give because it might empower them

      "Helping" can be hurting....

      All in need should be HELPED..... but is just empowering them to do as they are HELPING them?

      See post #2.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    9. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      I "get it" - and that's valid.


      But I think it's overly simple. Homelessness has SKYROCKETED in the past few years..... here in California, especially in cities very big hearted (?) like San Diego and San Francisco, it has gotten SO prevelent that whole neighbors stink of urine and worse, sidewalks and parks entirely overrun and people can't even pass through them... shopping centers and malls have had to be closed down.... even health crisises have resulted (including in San Deigo last year).


      Yes, SOME are homeless because of the absurdly high cost of living, so taht even those who are working can't afford a place to live. YES, that exists! But I think that's the tip of the iceberg.... and frankly, we've always had that problem. In the city where I live (won't name it), we have a large selter, open 24/7, year around - and it ain't bad - and there are resoures there for all kinds of help. It is never full. It is never at capacity! Why? To get in, one must undergo a test for illegal drugs ... and those with mental illnesses are encouraged to accept help... and illegal activities (like prostitution and drug dealing) is not allowed in the selter. I think we have a problem much bigger than good people sweezed out of the housing market. BTW, our city also has thousands of apartments - all subsidzed - rents are in relation to income, but to live there.... um..... same problem. Our church helps sponsor an organization that takes FAMILIES (must have kids, not necessarily two parents) and gives them extensive job training with several local businesses and government agencies, GIVES them a nice apartment (free until they begin working) even supplies free child care. It's very expensive - and our church helps fund it - they don't have a waiting list, most families are not willing to submit to the drug tests and the "rules" I think the problem is bigger than good people being sqeezed out of the housing market.


      I think the whole "empower not enable" thing plays into this.... some. I love their heart, but some may actually be empowering a bad situation and keep some from facing up to the reality and getting the help they need - whether that's education, job training, mental help, help with addictions, or whatever. And meanwhile, it's SKYROCKETING.





      .
      Sad that so many refuse help like that because they are not willing to change their lifestyle and continue to prostitute themselves for drugs... regardless of their lifestyles they still need our help actually more so, they simple cannot take care of themselves.
      The video corrects those who are self pleasing, the example of a man forgiving his brother just to benefit himself by getting everyone off his back about it... people usually walk past a homeless person and wont even look at them.
      If there are swarms of homeless it's impossible to feed and clothe all of them when walking by, but I have given them food and water and they are very thankful for it. I hate how police can shut down food stands for the homeless because we "enable" them, since when is feeding someone enabling??

      I love what this pastor did and how he expressed the Lords message.

    10. #7
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      Sad that so many refuse help like that because they are not willing to change their lifestyle and continue to prostitute themselves for drugs... regardless of their lifestyles they still need our help actually more so, they simple cannot take care of themselves.
      MY question: Is simply enabling them to continue in their disability and destructive behavior HELPING them?


      .
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    11. #8
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      MY question: Is simply enabling them to continue in their disability and destructive behavior HELPING them?


      .
      So we enable them by feeding them? Maybe if we let them starve they will get a job or go away? I am missing your point, feeding, clothing and sheltering anyone is always helpful.
      It's not easy at all for them to get honest work or even a legit job, employers are picky and I doubt moat of them even have a valid ID or SS card so it's just about impossible for them to work and in the condition they are in.
      Homelessness is an epidemic but that doesn't mean we should just give up on all of them, do what you can and help as much as you can.
      James says we shouldn't just pass by and say "wear clothes and eat well", that enables our disobedience and is not Christ like at all.

    12. #9
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      I think we should HELP them.... and that means helping them with their situation, not just a quick band-aide and then return them to the same mess as if we don't care. If all we do is pat them on the head and enable them to return to an ever worsening, downward mess (which is exactly what is happening) then we actually are just making matters worse. People may FEEL good about dropping a dollar in the can of some drug addict or sex slave but it's not helping them.

      Our letting them sleep and pee anywhere..... sell sex and drugs.... etc., etc..... start fires (a serious problem where I live)..... committing crimes..... while throwing them a bit of food now and then is NOT helping the problem. It's fueling it - notice how the problem is SKYROCKETING! We need to get to WHY they are on the streets - especially in light of shelters available but nowhere near capacity, programs that could truly HELP them that don't have enough applications to fill the spots available, etc., etc., etc.

      There's an old adage that you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped. I guess you can throw them a biscuit (if it makes YOU feel better) and thus make it possible for them to continue to not want or accept help, but is that helping?


      See post #4.




      .
      Last edited by Josiah; 10-22-2018 at 03:17 PM.
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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    14. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      I think we should HELP them.... and that means helping them with their situation, not just a quick band-aide and then return them to the same mess as if we don't care. If all we do is pat them on the head and enable them to return to an ever worsening, downward mess (which is exactly what is happening) then we actually are just making matters worse. People may FEEL good about dropping a dollar in the can of some drug addict or sex slave but it's not helping them.

      Our letting them sleep and pee anywhere..... sell sex and drugs.... etc., etc..... start fires (a serious problem where I live)..... committing crimes..... while throwing them a bit of food now and then is NOT helping the problem. It's fueling it - notice how the problem is SKYROCKETING! We need to get to WHY they are on the streets - especially in light of shelters available but nowhere near capacity, programs that could truly HELP them that don't have enough applications to fill the spots available, etc., etc., etc.

      See post #4.
      Excellent point Josiah

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