Is white nationalism a Christian virtue?

atpollard · Oct 27, 2018

Resources said:
"A Black man, born to a foreign national father, raised abroad and educated in an Islamic culture, and attending a Church that preaches racial warfare ... became President of the United States and served the maximum 8 years allowed by law." That certainly drives some people mad. Eventhough they attempted to deny Barak Obama of opportunity by highlighting that he is different, he managed to overcome. Eventhough they used labels to brand him as unworthy, God gifted him with enough ability to dance circles around those who claimed to be superior to him. God had the last laugh.

However, what oppressors do not understand is grace. God can empower people to overcome, no matter how hard those who are bent on impeding set obstacles.

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Perhaps, but not me. My only criticism of Obama as a candidate for President was that someone with no experience as Governor and only 2 years as a Congressman needed more experience. Once elected, I had no more objections to his presidency than I had to any other (I am Libertarian, so I favor a small government and low taxes).

However, the ON TOPIC point was ... where is the evidence of racism causing oppression in the US?

Resources · Oct 27, 2018

atpollard said:
Perhaps, but not me. My only criticism of Obama as a candidate for President was that someone with no experience as Governor and only 2 years as a Congressman needed more experience. Once elected, I had no more objections to his presidency than I had to any other (I am Libertarian, so I favor a small government and low taxes).

However, the ON TOPIC point was ... where is the evidence of racism causing oppression in the US?

Because it matters to the topic at hand. What is your race?

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Resources · Oct 27, 2018

Albion said:
No one said that it is not. Try to follow along.

But some are trying to diminish it.

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Albion · Oct 27, 2018

No one here has done that either.

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Resources · Oct 27, 2018

Albion said:
No one here has done that either.

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Hmm. So when you ask for proof, you do so because you are convinced that there is racism?

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psalms 91 · Oct 27, 2018

Not hard to find considering the prison statistics of disporportionate blacks being locked up compared to white and the poverty numbers among different communities, not to mention discrimination in so many other areas. Just because it isnt spoken plain anymore doesnt mean that it doesnt exist and it is not just blacks or indians, the whites are also discriminated against with affirmative action, preferential hiring practices and many blacks are also predjudiced as well. So does it exist of course it does

Resources · Oct 27, 2018

psalms 91 said:
Not hard to find considering the prison statistics of disporportionate blacks being locked up compared to white and the poverty numbers among different communities, not to mention discrimination in so many other areas. Just because it isnt spoken plain anymore doesnt mean that it doesnt exist and it is not just blacks or indians, the whites are also discriminated against with affirmative action, preferential hiring practices and many blacks are also predjudiced as well. So does it exist of course it does

The problem is many will look at these statistics and say, "well if blacks or latinos weren't commiting all this crimes they wouldn't be in jail". Translation: Blacks and latinos are criminaly minded people and for that reason commit crimes. For that reason there are more of them in jail.

Remember whe the drug epidemic reached the latino and black communities? Blacks and latinos were painted as low life disgusting criminals. Many are still in jail because of their adfictions. They lock them up and threw away the key.

Now in contrast, look at the treatment of predominantly middle class whites. The drug epidemic has reached white america, so all of the sudden there is a need to reform the law. White drug addicts are poor little vuctims who are suffering from an illness and need our help. They don't need jail. They need therapy. It's not that they are bad people. The physicians are the guilty ones who prescribe these drugs.

Yet God is not blind to these injustice, even if some folks are bent on making sure no one sees racial oppression.

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ImaginaryDay2 · Oct 27, 2018

I've become convinced that those who believe oppression is rampant in the United States tend to overstate the issue. The discussion begins with 'racism' then turns to 'oppression' as if we are talking about the same thing. As has been said in different threads at different times, words have meanings - sometimes quite different from one another. The opportunities afforded to African Americans (and there are opportunities) are abundant compared to populations of people in this world who are truly oppressed. I work right in the middle of some of them. External and internal politics often keep them that way. Tell me - what other population was taken from their homes by force as children and placed in religious schools, sometimes without knowledge of the parents as to when the police and government agents were coming for them? Did they permanently lose their culture and language? Were their parents arrested if they tried to stop these government agents, or tried to hide their children?

What I see with African Americans is that culture and language are being restored. They have access to their history that was stolen from them, their culture and languages. Ancestry.com is a cheek-swab away from telling someone their whole story. There are others who don't have their stories because it was traditionally passed down to them by their elders - the same ones taken to the religious schools. Seven generations without knowledge of their language and culture, and a government that reneged on their agreements. As one Indigenous Elder said to a group of us recently - "Be patient with us. We've been dealing with you for five-hundred years".

I heard the story from an Indigenous man my age who had no knowledge himself that these schools even existed. His parents and elders never told him because of shame and trauma experienced. He compared it to Jews who survived the Holocaust, then coming home and not talking about their experiences. So he lost his culture,language, and practices as much as his parents and grandparents who experienced the residential schools.

So, no - white nationalism isn't a "Christian virtue"

Albion · Oct 27, 2018

Resources said:
The problem is many will look at these statistics and say, "well if blacks or latinos weren't commiting all this crimes they wouldn't be in jail". Translation: Blacks and latinos are criminaly minded people and for that reason commit crimes. For that reason there are more of them in jail.

Is that how YOU translate the above? Most people would agree with the political Liberals that the inner cities have poorer schools, fewer job opportunities, inferior social services, and so on, therefore it is inevitable that the residents (whatever their color) are naturally going to be forced into pursuits that the residents of more affluent neighborhoods are not...with the consequence that more laws are broken by them.

In other words, the cause of crime is environmental or institutional but not necessarily racial.

And the Liberals ought to know, since they popularized that explanation and also are responsible for creating the living conditions I just described.

Resources · Oct 27, 2018

ImaginaryDay2 said:
I've become convinced that those who believe oppression is rampant in the United States tend to overstate the issue. The discussion begins with 'racism' then turns to 'oppression' as if we are talking about the same thing. As has been said in different threads at different times, words have meanings - sometimes quite different from one another. The opportunities afforded to African Americans (and there are opportunities) are abundant compared to populations of people in this world who are truly oppressed. I work right in the middle of some of them. External and internal politics often keep them that way. Tell me - what other population was taken from their homes by force as children and placed in religious schools, sometimes without knowledge of the parents as to when the police and government agents were coming for them? Did they permanently lose their culture and language? Were their parents arrested if they tried to stop these government agents, or tried to hide their children?

What I see with African Americans is that culture and language are being restored. They have access to their history that was stolen from them, their culture and languages. Ancestry.com is a cheek-swab away from telling someone their whole story. There are others who don't have their stories because it was traditionally passed down to them by their elders - the same ones taken to the religious schools. Seven generations without knowledge of their language and culture, and a government that reneged on their agreements. As one Indigenous Elder said to a group of us recently - "Be patient with us. We've been dealing with you for five-hundred years".

I heard the story from an Indigenous man my age who had no knowledge himself that these schools even existed. His parents and elders never told him because of shame and trauma experienced. He compared it to Jews who survived the Holocaust, then coming home and not talking about their experiences. So he lost his culture,language, and practices as much as his parents and grandparents who experienced the residential schools.

So, no - white nationalism isn't a "Christian virtue"

So tell me, what is oppression to you?

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atpollard · Oct 27, 2018

Resources said:
Because it matters to the topic at hand. What is your race?

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Human. (Race is an artificial construct).

Caucasian.
Be very careful what you say next ... just stating that my race matters more than my thoughts in this topic has already placed you within a inches of convicting yourself of racism (judging people on the color of their skin rather than their individual merit).

Resources · Oct 27, 2018

Albion said:
Is that how YOU translate the above? Most people would agree with the political Liberals that the inner cities have poorer schools, fewer job opportunities, inferior social services, and so on, therefore it is inevitable that the residents (whatever their color) are naturally going to be forced into pursuits that the residents of more affluent neighborhoods are not...with the consequence that more laws are broken by them.

In other words, the cause of crime is environmental or institutional but not necessarily racial.

And the Liberals ought to know, since they popularized that explanation and also are responsible for creating the living conditions I just described.

Liberals, conservatives. Some people frame every angle on political tendencies. Since politics rely on division and on conquering, no wonder nothing gets done.

My concern was to reject politics as an slternative to Christianity. That is the problem. White nationalism is a by product of politics. Hence, it is in opposition to Christianity, since Christianity is not about dominating, conquering and dividing.

The fact is Christ is King. Christ wants all humans regardless of race to receive Him. Christ want's justice for all people, and He stands with the oppress, the outcast, those who are disadvantage. The goal of every Christian should be to stand with the oppressed, not to find reasons to oppress people.

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Resources · Oct 27, 2018

atpollard said:
Human. (Race is an artificial construct).

Caucasian.
Be very careful what you say next ... just stating that my race matters more than my thoughts in this topic has already placed you within a inches of convicting yourself of racism (judging people on the color of their skin rather than their individual merit).

Is it fair to say that your exoerience as a caucasian man might be different that the experience of someone from another race?

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ImaginaryDay2 · Oct 27, 2018

Resources said:
So tell me, what is oppression to you?

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The example wasn't enough?

atpollard · Oct 27, 2018

psalms 91 said:
Not hard to find considering the prison statistics of disporportionate blacks being locked up compared to white and the poverty numbers among different communities, not to mention discrimination in so many other areas. Just because it isnt spoken plain anymore doesnt mean that it doesnt exist and it is not just blacks or indians, the whites are also discriminated against with affirmative action, preferential hiring practices and many blacks are also predjudiced as well. So does it exist of course it does

You are mistaking culture for race. In the US only 13% of the population self identifies as ‘Black’ (check the census figures for yourself), yet those 13% of the population commit 50% of all homicides. No ‘white racist’ forced them to murder another human being (who was statistically probably also black). I know many ‘African Americans’ who came to the US from the Caribbean and they find the urban black culture just as bizarre as any other suburbanite.

What you are seeing is the result of a culture of urban poverty. It impacts all races equally. Latino’s living in urban poverty have similar statistics. Whites living in urban poverty have similar statistics.

Blacks just have more a higher percentage living in poverty. I suspect it is because the Government has been attempting to HELP them with social engineering programs longer than any other ethnic group.

Resources · Oct 27, 2018

ImaginaryDay2 said:
The example wasn't enough?

No.

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Resources · Oct 27, 2018

atpollard said:
You are mistaking culture for race. In the US only 13% of the population self identifies as ‘Black’ (check the census figures for yourself), yet those 13% of the population commit 50% of all homicides. No ‘white racist’ forced them to murder another human being (who was statistically probably also black). I know many ‘African Americans’ who came to the US from the Caribbean and they find the urban black culture just as bizarre as any other suburbanite.

What you are seeing is the result of a culture of urban poverty. It impacts all races equally. Latino’s living in urban poverty have similar statistics. Whites living in urban poverty have similar statistics.

Blacks just have more a higher percentage living in poverty. I suspect it is because the Government has been attempting to HELP them with social engineering programs longer than any other ethnic group.

Or because the are still living with the scars of slavery.

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ImaginaryDay2 · Oct 27, 2018

Resources said:
Is it fair to say that your exoerience as a caucasian man might be different that the experience of someone from another race?

The experience of any race will have differences from others; however, when the Caucasian experience is discounted, connection isn't possible.

Resources · Oct 27, 2018

ImaginaryDay2 said:
The experience of any race will have differences from others; however, when the Caucasian experience is discounted, connection isn't possible.

So you feel the caucasian experience is discounted?

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ImaginaryDay2 · Oct 27, 2018

Resources said:
Or because the are still living with the scars of slavery.

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Tell me what the scars happen to be. Honestly, tell me. Has the government placed African Americans on reserves and changed their form of government? Have they taken away their "status" as African Americans, thereby stripping them of rights just because they chose to fight in wars to protect a country they thought was theirs? Are they struggling to regain their cultural practices? How many Indigenous universities are there compared to historically black colleges and universities (hint - there's ONE Indigenous University in Canada). When was the last "residential school" for blacks in America closed? It was 1996 for Indigenous peoples in Canada.

Now what was that about scars of slavery?

Is white nationalism a Christian virtue?

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