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    Christian Theology - Thread: Can faith save him?

    1. #11
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      [John 3:13-15 NLT] 13 No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.

      [John 3:16-17 NLT] 16 "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.

      [John 3:18-21 NLT] 18 "There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God's light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants."

      [John 3:31-36 NLT] 31 "He has come from above and is greater than anyone else. We are of the earth, and we speak of earthly things, but he has come from heaven and is greater than anyone else. 32 He testifies about what he has seen and heard, but how few believe what he tells them! 33 Anyone who accepts his testimony can affirm that God is true. 34 For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God gives him the Spirit without limit. 35 The Father loves his Son and has put everything into his hands. 36 And anyone who believes in God's Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn't obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God's angry judgment."

      Is God trying to tell us something?
      I sense a pattern, but can’t quite put my finger on it.
      Yes, the pattern you're noticing but not quite seeing clearly is that belief and faith are the same word in Greek. Belief without good works is dead. Faith without good works is dead. Both faith and belief, being the same thing in holy scriptures, are dead without good works. It is the good works that are the spirit/life that makes the believer alive in Christ.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    2. #12
      Arsenios's Avatar
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      Diagramming Greek sentences is fun:

      su pisteueiv
      You are believing...

      oti o yeov eiv estin
      that the God One IS...

      kalwv poieiv
      Well are you doing...

      kai ta daimonia
      And also the demons

      pisteuousin
      are believing

      kai frissousin
      and also trembling...

      A slightly unfair summary translation is:
      You and the demons are DOING well...
      In BELIEVING that God is One...
      The demons are also trembling...


      The sentence says that because you are believing, you are DOING well...
      And not only you, but the demons too are DOING WELL...
      Because they are not only BELIEVING...
      But unlike you...
      They are TREMBLING...

      Yet you and they both are BELIEVING and DOING the SAME THING...
      eg Believing without doing the works of belief/faith...

      Yet the affirmation here is that to believe that God IS One is itself a WORK, a DOing...
      "You ARE DOING well..." poieiv Strong's Number 4160...
      So that by faith alone without doing the works of faith...
      We have not advanced beyond the faith of demons...
      Our faith without works is thereby a demonic faith...
      Wherein the demons can only tremble, and they do tremble...
      But man has another choice to make...
      Man can DO the works of the Faith of Christ...
      The decision to do them is man's, not Christ's...
      And the Salvation of man hangs in the balance...


      Arsenios
      Last edited by Arsenios; 10-15-2018 at 09:02 AM.

    3. #13
      atpollard is offline Prodigy Member
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      Perhaps you might enjoy diagraming these Greek sentences:

      ινα πας ο πιστευων εν αυτω εχη ζωην αιωνιον
      ουτως γαρ ηγαπησεν ο θεος τον κοσμον ωστε τον υιον τον μονογενη εδωκεν ινα πας ο πιστευων εις αυτον μη αποληται αλλ’ εχη ζωην αιωνιον
      ο πιστευων εις αυτον ου κρινεται ο δε μη πιστευων ηδη κεκριται οτι μη πεπιστευκεν εις το ονομα του μονογενους υιου του θεου
      ο πιστευων εις τον υιον εχει ζωην αιωνιον ο δε απειθων τω υιω ουκ οψεται ζωην αλλ’ η οργη του θεου μενει επ’ αυτον

    4. #14
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      Remember the Bible says Faith is to walk by Faith and not by sight. People like Jesus that is the Savior and Lord that are in your heart. Not seen but you know He is there to watch over and be with us.
      Thanksgiving 2018!

    5. #15
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      A man is not justified by faith alone.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    6. #16
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      Perhaps you might enjoy diagraming these Greek sentences:

      ινα πας ο πιστευων εν αυτω εχη ζωην αιωνιον
      ουτως γαρ ηγαπησεν ο θεος τον κοσμον ωστε τον υιον τον μονογενη εδωκεν ινα πας ο πιστευων εις αυτον μη αποληται αλλ’ εχη ζωην αιωνιον
      ο πιστευων εις αυτον ου κρινεται ο δε μη πιστευων ηδη κεκριται οτι μη πεπιστευκεν εις το ονομα του μονογενους υιου του θεου
      ο πιστευων εις τον υιον εχει ζωην αιωνιον ο δε απειθων τω υιω ουκ οψεται ζωην αλλ’ η οργη του θεου μενει επ’ αυτον
      Got out my Google Translate. It makes me laugh.
      all the believing in him shall live forever

      so the god has loved the world so that the only begotten son has given him who believes in him, but has not lived forever

      the believer in him is judged, and the unbeliever is already honored that he has not believed in the name of the only son of God

      the believer in the Son has been alive for ever, and the unfaithful of life is endured alive, but the wrath of the god remains on him

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    8. #17
      atpollard is offline Prodigy Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Got out my Google Translate. It makes me laugh.
      I use that too.
      The sentences are John 3:15, 16, 18, 36 from the MGNT version of the Bible.
      Last edited by atpollard; 10-16-2018 at 06:39 PM.

    9. #18
      atpollard is offline Prodigy Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      A man is not justified by faith alone.
      No matter how many places it says otherwise in scripture.

    10. Likes MennoSota, Josiah liked this post
    11. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      No matter how many places it says otherwise in scripture.
      Where in holy scripture is it ever said that a man is saved by faith alone?
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    12. #20
      atpollard is offline Prodigy Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      It is the good works that are the spirit/life that makes the believer alive in Christ.
      I agree that there is a correlation between good works and a living faith and being alive in Christ, and I believe that I could defend the existence of a relationship from scripture. However, your statement goes far beyond any simple relationship (those with a living faith do good works) and claim a direct cause-effect relationship (one does good works to get a living faith).

      Can you offer scripture to support your position?
      I do not think the Apostles state what you claim.

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