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  • Page 21 of 21 FirstFirst ... 11192021
    Results 201 to 205 of 205

    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: Salvation - Part 2

    1. #201
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      It's called discussion.... this IS a discussion forum.... indeed, it's a debate forum.


      A member has made very bold dogmatic claims...... over and over and over and over and over..... even in threads not about baptism......for a year. I didn't bring up any of these Anabaptist traditions but a couple of posters have (probably 90% of the time by the same poster).


      This member INSISTS that all tradition be fully ignored (although all he does is perfectly echo the denominational tradition of the Anabaptists) and we must go only and exclusively by the words in the Bible - those words must clearly confirm the claim. Okay. Not sure I fully agree with that rubric, but there's his mandate and that's what we all must do (or he won't discuss this). So, is it appropriate to ask, "Where are the Scriptures for the Dogmas you proclaim - endlessly, in thread after thread, even in threads not about baptism?" Is that inappropriate?


      Or does truth not matter? Does it the reality that new Dogmas that divides Christians not matter because truth doesn't matter and division doesn't matter? Is your view what Pilate said sarcastically, "What is truth?" Well.... then it applies to ALL and you'd be just as rebuking of the Anabaptists who claim they are proclaiming truth.


      No, friend, I'm not "picking a fight." I'm simply holding our friend to his own standard, his own mandate; not buying his double-standard, his doing the very thing he ridicules and rejects in all others... I'm simply asking for the very thing he demands (over and over and over and voer and over) from everyone else.




      .
      I have provided over 30 verses let's talk through them and see what the Bible says.

    2. #202
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      Arsenios,


      This is a DISCUSSION and debate forum...... Some think that truth actually matters and that dogmas that divide Christians matter..... I realize, some don't agree on either point...


      MennoSota has dogmatically proclaimed the following, in this thread and in countless others, over and over and over, since coming here a year ago....


      1. The Bible forbids baptism to any who have not yet attained the age of X. This is the Anti-Paedobaptism dogma he perfectly parrots, it's the tradition of the Anabaptist denomination it invented in the 16th Century.


      2. The Bible forbids baptism to any who have not yet chose Jesus as their personal Savior. This is the Credobaptism dogma he perfectly parrots, it's the tradition of the Anabaptist denomination it invented in the 16th Century.


      3. The Bible forbids anyone to do anything unless it is clearly documented as having been done in the NT. This is his foundational apologetic, and thus his constant point about "Where in the Bible do we see anyone posting on the interne!!?"


      4. The Bible forbids anyone to be baptized unless every cell of their body is entirely covered by water. This is the Immersion ONLY dogma he perfectly parrots, it's the tradition of the Anabaptist denomination it invented in the 16th Century.



      It is HE (not I) who keeps bringing up these dogmas.... endlessly.... even in threads not about baptism..... He at times brings them up as alternatives to historic views of Baptism, but it is he who keeps bringing them up (well, a couple of others too but mostly him).


      It is HE (not I) who insisting we reject any denominational tradition and "going" exclusively and solely by the words of the Bible Okay.... then eliminate ALL denominational tradition (including that of the Anabaptists) and go by what the words of the text say. But will he himself do that? Obviously, all he has done is perfectly, verbatim, parrot the Anabaptist tradition here and he has yet to offer even one Scripture for even one of the new, unique Anabaptist dogmas he perfectly parrots. He claims he has posted 30 verses - and I believe him - but none of those state any of the new, unique baptism dogmas of the Anabaptist denomination that he persistently parrots.


      Friend, I'm just playing by HIS rules..... and addressing things HE insists are DOGMAS. HE keeps bringing up these 4 things - over and over and over and over - HE keeps insisting tradition be disregarded and we only go by the words in the Bible - HE has established the topic and the the rules he demands for the discussion. I'm attempting to discuss the dogmas HE keeps bringing up, with HIS mandates. I don't consider that unfair or disrespectful. It's HIS dogmas.... HIS mandates. I don't feel I'm being fundamentally disrespectful or rude to him. I disagree with these Anabaptist traditions - and have stated why - I'm just waiting for him to support them while doing what he insists - eliminating all tradition and supporting the DOGMAS with the teaching words found in the Bible.... playing by HIS rules for discussion. I disagree that I'm thus being "rude." I've giving him an opportunity to do what he demands others do (or to consider his dogmas and/or mandates).




      - Josiah




      .
      I have not done anything you claim. You have brought up those meaningless things.
      I have called you to address scripture and you continually run from scripture when discussing baptism.
      There are over 30 verses that I have provided for us to talk through. Anytime you are willing, Josiah. Anytime you are willing.

    3. #203
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      I have not done anything you claim. You have brought up those meaningless things.

      So....


      You are NOW claiming that since you came here, you have NOT - not ever - supported that:


      1. We are not to give baptize to those too young? You've NEVER - not once - claimed that the Bible disallows baptism to any under a certain age? You have NEVER supported the Anti-Paedobaptism dogma of the Anabaptist denomination but rather SUPPORT infant baptism?


      2. You have NEVER - not once - stated that FIRST one must publicly documentent their faith in Christ BEFORE being baptized; You've never once argued that the Bible forbids baptism to any who have not yet chose Jesus as their personal Savior, you've never supported but have repudiated the Anabaptist dogma of Credobaptism?


      3. That you have NEVER - not once - ever indicated that we can only do what is illustrated as done in the NT, that it doesn't matter if something is illustrated as done in the NT? That you've never once indicated we can't do what is not illustrated as done in the NT, your position is that it doesn't matter if something is or is not illustrated as done in the NT?



      4. That you have NEVER stated - not once - that baptism is invalid if not by full immersion? That you equally support baptism by other means which do not necessarily cover every cell with water? That you have not promoted the Anabaptist dogma of full immersion?


      I wonder if you have read your own posts.



      Yes, you have INSISTED that all ignore all denominational traditiion - but all you have done is perfectly echo the tradition of the Anabaptist tradition...

      Yes, you have INSISTED that we all "go" only by the teaching words found in the Bible - but you have yet to provide even one verse for even one of the 4 things above.




      .

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      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    4. #204
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      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah View Post
      So....


      You are NOT claiming that since you came here, you have NOT - not ever - supported that:


      1. We are not to give baptize to those too young? You've never - not once - claimed that the Bible forbids baptism to any under a certain age? You have NEVER supported the Anti-Paedobaptism dogma of the Anabaptist denomination but rather SUPPORT infant baptism?


      2. You have NEVER - not once - stated that FIRST one must publicly documentent their faith in Christ BEFORE being baptized; You've never once argued that the Bible forbids baptism to any who have not yet chose Jesus as their personal Savior, you've never supported but have repudiated the Anabaptist dogma of Credobaptism?


      3. That you have never - not once - ever indicated that we can only do what is illustrated as done in the NT, that it doesn't matter if something is illustrated as done in the NT? That you've never once indicated we can't do what is not illustrated as done in the NT, your position is that it doesn't matter if something is or is not illustrated as done in the NT?



      4. That you have NEVER stated - not once - that baptism is invalid if not by full immersion? That you equally support baptism by other means which do not necessarily cover every cell with water? That you have not promoted the Anabaptist dogma of full immersion?


      I wonder if you have read your own posts.



      Yes, you have INSISTED that all ignore all denominational traditiion - but all you have done is perfectly echo the tradition of the Anabaptist tradition...

      Yes, you have INSISTED that we all "go" only by the teaching words found in the Bible - but you have yet to provide even one verse for even one of the 4 things above.




      .

      .
      Will you discuss scripture? If not, don't bother us. Sola Scriptura, Josiah.

    5. #205
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Quote Originally Posted by Josiah


      So....


      You are NOW claiming that since you came here, you have NOT - not ever - supported that:


      1. We are not to give baptize to those too young? You've never - not once - claimed that the Bible forbids baptism to any under a certain age? You have NEVER supported the Anti-Paedobaptism dogma of the Anabaptist denomination but rather SUPPORT infant baptism? You've NOT been promoting this new Anabaptist dogma but have repudiated it?


      2. You have NEVER - not once - stated that FIRST one must publicly documentent their faith in Christ BEFORE being baptized; You've never once argued that the Bible forbids baptism to any who have not yet chose Jesus as their personal Savior, you've never supported but have repudiated the Anabaptist dogma of Credobaptism? You've NEVER supported this Anabaptist dogma but have repudiated it?


      3. That you have never - not once - ever indicated that we can only do what is illustrated as done in the NT, that it doesn't matter if something is illustrated as done in the NT? That you've never once indicated we can't do what is not illustrated as done in the NT
      , your position is that it doesn't matter if something is or is not illustrated as done in the NT?


      4. That you have NEVER stated - not once - that baptism is invalid if not by full immersion? You've NEVER promoted immersion baptism? That you equally support baptism by other means which do not necessarily cover every cell with water? That you have not promoted the Anabaptist dogma of full immersion?


      I wonder if you have read your own posts.



      Yes, you have INSISTED that all ignore all denominational traditiion - but all you have done is perfectly echo the tradition of the Anabaptist tradition...

      Yes, you have INSISTED that we all "go" only by the teaching words found in the Bible - but you have yet to provide even one verse for even one of the 4 things above.



      Will you discuss scripture? If not, don't bother us. Sola Scriptura, Josiah.

      Are you now running away from what you've been insisting upon for over a year now?


      Have you changed your mind (180 degrees) - which is fine, we all grow - or are you denying SO much of what you have posted for over a year now, perhaps having not read your own posts?


      YOU have insisted that we ignore all denominational tradition (yet you seem to wholly, entirely, exempt one - Anabaptist denominational tradition - which you parrot perfectly, verbatim, constantly).... and that we go ONLY by what Scripture teaches (but you refuse to give even one Scripture that teaches any of the 4 things above - which I realize you NOW may be denying you've ever stated.... and your whole apologetic has NOT ever been ANYTHING stated in Scripture but the rule that we cannot do anything unless it is illustrated as done in the NT - your ENDLESS, eternal, perpetual and sole apologetic - yet you not only fail to give a single Scripture to support that but obviously YOU don't accept it, you do ALL KINDS OF THINGS never once illustrated as done in the Bible, denouncing and repudiating your entire apologetic.




      .
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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