30 year gap in accusation and consequences

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
31,566
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Saying that there is doubt in a woman's accusations is NOT saying that the man is innocent.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,115
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I believe Dr Ford. I do not think her testimony is proof that judge Kavanaugh attempted to rape her but I believe her testimony.

I do not believe judge Kavanaugh. He said he was preparing his statement while Dr Ford was testifying so he didn't watch and hear her testimony. The implication of what he said about not listening to her testimony - which was a reply that he gave in answer to a question - is that his opening statement was written down and that includes the claim that his predicament was caused by Democrats motivated by resentment because of the election result in 2016. He blamed a conspiracy and named the Clintons as involved and Democrats as funding it with millions of dollars. He was alternately angry to the point of rage and tearful in his opening statement. He nearly broke into tears when speaking of his daughter saying "we should pray for the woman". The prepared statement was belligerent in tone. He blamed the 10 democrat senators, accused individual democrat senators and when he was questioned he continued with the same approach. Angry belligerence.

But I noticed the didn't in his statement. He didn't listen to Dr Ford, he said after his statement was finished. His daughter, in his recalling of the story, said "the woman" not "Mrs Ford" or her name, not even a part of her name. He didn't hear Dr Ford and in his telling of the tearfully emotive part of his statement didn't give her a name, she was just "the woman".


That added to the picture I thought. Deaf to her story she was an unnamed "woman" to be prayed for.

I wonder if a truly innocent man would behave like that. I do not claim to know.

I do not think we will ever be completely sure what happened because none of us was there and no camera and no microphone was there so we saw and heard nothing of the event we have only the recollections of the people who were involved. If they were involved. It is possible that judge Kavanaugh and his friend Mark will say they were not there and know nothing about what transpired. That may be true. Let's wait and see what the FBI investigation uncovers - if there is anything to uncover.

Nevertheless I believe Dr Ford.
 

psalms 91

Well-known member
Moderator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
15,205
Age
75
Location
Pa
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Charismatic
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
I believe something happened to her, I do not believe he did it. Here is my problem with this. I think we can all agree that a predetor which is what he would be if what is said was true does not change until caught if then, so saying that I wonder how all these intervening years have passed with a reputation above reproach and all the women he has been in contact with both personally and professionally not one has said anything bad about him and in fact over 200 of them have come out in support of him. So if he is a predetor how come?
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
31,566
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I believe something happened to her, I do not believe he did it. Here is my problem with this. I think we can all agree that a predetor which is what he would be if what is said was true does not change until caught if then, so saying that I wonder how all these intervening years have passed with a reputation above reproach and all the women he has been in contact with both personally and professionally not one has said anything bad about him and in fact over 200 of them have come out in support of him. So if he is a predetor how come?

You bring up excellent points.

Don't you think that if these boys (whoever they were) truly intended to rape Dr. Ford that they would have?
 

TurtleHare

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
1,057
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,115
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
A man's life is ruined in an instant by mob mentality, eh? Get a gander at the USA Today piece insisting he's a pedophile now and shouldn't coach his own daughter's team
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainmen...f-basketball-courts-when-kids-are-around.html
USA Today hit piece says Kavanaugh should 'stay off basketball courts when kids are around'

https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...-no-longer-coach-girls-basketball/1459496002/

Justice Clarence Thomas was confirmed as a justice on the SCOTUS after he was accused of sexual misconduct, his life isn't in ruins.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,084
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
There may be proof. The woman is credible. I never said he was not innocent. Why are you so sure he IS innocent? Let the FBI investigate.

From what I've seen I'm not sure the woman is credible. I don't have a problem with the idea someone can remember things from 30 years ago but forget things from 30 days ago. I can still remember the phone number of the girl I dated briefly 30 years ago (and she's undoubtedly not even got the same phone number now) but can't remember what I had for dinner last Tuesday. For me the issue isn't so much the idea of being able to remember something after so long but the apparent inconsistencies. If someone can remember an event but can't remember the time, even to within a week or two, it makes me suspicious. If they claim people were present but those people deny being present, it damages credibility. And, as always, the timing of the whole thing stinks of partisan blocking rather than any desire to actually investigate.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,084
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I saw the testimony of an Elder from Jehovah's witnesses to the Royal commission on sex abuse in institutions in Australia and in his testimony he remembered saying, to a women who had been sexually abused by a JW "deacon" and who was about to bring her case to the royal commission, "all you'd be doing is dragging Jehovah's name through the mud". He said it to silence her, or at least to try to get her to be silent. She did bring her case to the royal commission and he had to testify before it. He regretted his words. The thing that made the testimony interesting for me is that I know the elder, I new him well, we worked together for many years. I think it is not a bad thing for an abused women who bring her case before the authorities and if it damaged the reputation of somebody then so be it, if she is telling the truth then that will come out and if she isn't then that will come out. But silencing the victims of sexual abuse is not a viable approach it only makes the wickedness of sexual abuse worse.

We certainly shouldn't silence victims of sexual abuse. The trouble is in this age of social media (which is a totally different world to when others were accused of similar crimes) and this age where just about everything is viewed through a partisan lens rather than a desire to find truth, what happens so often is little more than ever-more polarisation.

The #MeToo movement would have us believe that everything is about whether or not women are believed, as if it were a universal state that either all women are believed or all women are called liars. The happy medium, in which we accept some women are telling the truth, some are mistaken, some are embellishing and some are outright lying, gets lost in the howling. Where sexual assault is concerned it is an inherently problematic situation because it's probably safe to say most sexual predators, just like most other criminals, seek to commit their crimes without a roomful of witnesses. And the concept of presumed innocence until guilt is proven is inherently incompatible with the concept of automatically believing a woman when she says that a particular man sexually assaulted her.

If an accusation is made it may be that the man in question did assault her, it may be that a different man assaulted her and she just mistook who it was (especially if it wasn't someone she knew), it may be that she consented to sex and subsequently cried rape, and in the situation of a claim of inappropriate touching there are even more potential factors that muddy the water, not least the fact that touching someone over their clothes could genuinely be accidental.

In this day and age the minute someone is accused of any offense, especially anything even remotely sexual, the process of "trial by social media" commences, and the associated echo chambers will mean that a substantial number of people will simply continue to read what they want to read and ignore anything that goes against their partisan leanings.

In many ways it's a shame that, on the face of it at least, two accusers of this Republican nominee are Democrat activists. If nothing else, a Republican activist claiming the Republican nominee sexually assulted her would instantly gain credibility because she would lack the obvious partisan motive to derail his nomination.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,084
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I believe something happened to her, I do not believe he did it. Here is my problem with this. I think we can all agree that a predetor which is what he would be if what is said was true does not change until caught if then, so saying that I wonder how all these intervening years have passed with a reputation above reproach and all the women he has been in contact with both personally and professionally not one has said anything bad about him and in fact over 200 of them have come out in support of him. So if he is a predetor how come?

I'm not sure it's necessarily true to say that he would have been a predator even if events had occurred exactly as Dr Ford describes.

For the sake of brevity, for the sake of this paragraph let's assume every word Dr Ford says is 100% true and events unfolded exactly as she described. That doesn't necessarily make Judge Kavanaugh a predator, it's possible that he was little more than a hormone-fuelled teenage boy who had too much to drink and got carried away (to be clear, that doesn't in any way excuse the action, it merely differentiates someone who behaved hugely inappropriately if not criminally once from someone who makes a habit of it).

When women Judge Kavanaugh has worked with over the years are coming forward to support him, that suggests he is not sexually predatory. That in turn raises the question of whether Dr Ford's allegations represent a young man who got out of hand, a case of mistaken identity, or an embellishment or outright fabrication.
 

tango

... and you shall live ...
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
14,084
Location
Realms of chaos
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
You bring up excellent points.

Don't you think that if these boys (whoever they were) truly intended to rape Dr. Ford that they would have?

Isn't her allegation that they only stopped because they were disturbed?
 

Josiah

simul justus et peccator
Valued Contributor
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
13,647
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
It's all profoundly sad.

The "swamp" is making a SHAM of the Constitution and the Rule of Law.... and will throw anyone under the bus to promote its stink.
 

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
31,566
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Isn't her allegation that they only stopped because they were disturbed?

Maybe her recent testimony differed from what I read on online news sites but she had stated that the other boy kept bouncing on them on the bed and they rolled off and that was how she made her escape. That type of play among boys to me indicates they had no intention of raping her.
 

MoreCoffee

Well-known member
Valued Contributor
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
19,115
Location
Western Australia
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Catholic
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Isn't her allegation that they only stopped because they were disturbed?

If you want to know what she alleges then why not watch her opening statement?

 

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
39
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
What does Deuteronomy say about witnesses?
She has no witnesses, no evidence, no date, no location, no recollection of how she got there or how she got back.
Not only did she wait 36 years but the democrats also sat on the case and did nothing themselves and now they want an investigation? Delay delay delay.
Kavanaugh had been investigated 6 times by the FBI already, I say they investigate her gofundme and her democratic coaches and payouts. They could care less about the turnout of the investigation they just want to delay and hope to take his seat. They have a motive and are playing the game of 'victimising' which is dirty, but if someone did attack her he might have resembled Kavanaugh for all we know, but there is no way she can be %100 percent sure of it like she says and not remember crucial information, her claims should have never been taken into consideration because she has no "when and where"... how can you warrant a case with no "when and where"?
Not a case at all, just lip service and slander.
For anyone including you MC to believe her story is infallible and that this man is GUILTY unless proven Innocent has a great degree of lawlessness in their heart and due process is extinguished. Hang a man because of a 'hunch'?
Its not a case of believing, it's a case of hard evidence, there is none! Confirm him now because of NOW he is still legally innocent.
 
Last edited:

Lamb

God's Lil Lamb
Community Team
Administrator
Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2015
Messages
31,566
Age
57
Gender
Female
Religious Affiliation
Lutheran
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
Does Australia have Due Process for their legal proceedings?
 

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
39
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes

Arsenios

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 19, 2018
Messages
3,577
Location
Pacific North West
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Eastern Orthodox
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
maybe they have 'kangaroo' courts

They are called ROOs, OK?

And granted, there was a Sultan there once...

And this Sultan did hold public Court...

And his name was, I will grant you, Kang Garr, OK?

But just because his rulings were not based on any evidence...

But were based solely on the partisan testimony of his tribal pals...

That does not mean they were socially unjust, OK?

The US of A has a long history of such mob courts...

Also run by [Staff Edit] in the South...

And many were those lynched and murdered by them...

Those of a differing tribal affiliation...

So the Legend of the Kang Garr Roo's Court lives on...

Lord have Mercy!


Arsenios
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Andrew

Matt 18:15
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Messages
6,645
Age
39
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Single
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
They are called ROOs, OK?

And granted, there was a Sultan there once...

And this Sultan did hold public Court...

And his name was, I will grant you, Kang Garr, OK?

But just because his rulings were not based on any evidence...

But were based solely on the partisan testimony of his tribal pals...

That does not mean they were socially unjust, OK?

The US of A has a long history of such mob courts...

Also run by [Staff Edit] in the South...

And many were those lynched and murdered by them...

Those of a differing tribal affiliation...

So the Legend of the Kang Garr Roo's Court lives on...

Lord have Mercy!


Arsenios
We don't call it a witch hunt for no reason lol
'Throw her in the water
If she floats she is a witch kill her!! If she sinks she is not a witch but she is dead... '

These people really hate babies, I sit with the Pope on this one.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Top Bottom