30 year gap in accusation and consequences

NewCreation435

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The question is how you determine what counts as "credible".

I agree that anyone considered for appointment to the Supreme Court should be held to the highest standards, but those standards also have to be realistic. If someone has demonstrated good character for several decades should they be disqualified for indiscretions during their teenage years?

credible would include some type of evidence including eye witnesses. The opposite is also true, if those who were present say they didn't see it happen then that's significant also
 

tango

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credible would include some type of evidence including eye witnesses. The opposite is also true, if those who were present say they didn't see it happen then that's significant also

Eyewitness testimony would certainly be useful, one way or the other. The trouble with the kind of he-said-she-said scenario is that if you're going to sexually assault someone you don't typically do it in front of witnesses.

From my understanding it seems that people who were allegedly at the party have denied being at the party, which casts doubt on the allegations being true. And the timing still looks very much like a last-minute, last-ditch attempt to derail the process.
 

MoreCoffee

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How do you feel about the inconsistencies in what she's been saying since mid-September through today?

Be specific, what inconsistencies?
 

Andrew

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Be specific, what inconsistencies?
Please discuss any facts she may have provided because there are none.
She was a "rape" victim and he was a 'typical american teen who drank beers'... that is all that spewed out of her mouth, please MC edify and enlighten us as to the details of that evening, where? When? How?
I'll wait...
In the meantime allow me to reiterate that she is playing once again the victim -for the democratic party- of either color or sex, in this case it's 'sex', furthering the division in my nation.
 

MoreCoffee

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Please discuss any facts she may have provided because there are none.
She was a "rape" victim and he was a 'typical american teen who drank beers'... that is all that spewed out of her mouth, please MC edify and enlighten us as to the details of that evening, where? When? How?
I'll wait...
In the meantime allow me to reiterate that she is playing once again the victim -for the democratic party- of either color or sex, in this case it's 'sex', furthering the division in my nation.

Her testimony is available.

 

Andrew

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Her testimony is available.

Her testimony is no testimony at all, i dont remember where, when, i dont know who drove me there and who drove me back, i wasnt rapped tho but I have a friend who cannot refutes my claims.... come on, I watched hers and it was full of nothing, just feelings as usually with liberals..
 

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I think that Dr Ford's accusation is credible. Her testimony was credible. I do have doubts about Judge Kavanaugh's character and honesty. His testimony is overtly political. That too adds to doubts about his suitability as a member of the SCOTUS.
I agree. I saw him on tv yesterday and he seems like a bomb ready to explode.
 

Ruth

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Her testimony is no testimony at all, i dont remember where, when, i dont know who drove me there and who drove me back, i wasnt rapped tho but I have a friend who cannot refutes my claims.... come on, I watched hers and it was full of nothing, just feelings as usually with liberals..
What's wrong with having feelings and being liberal? Nothing!
 

psalms 91

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The wrong is in dragging him through the mud with absolutely no proof, what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty
 

Lamb

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Be specific, what inconsistencies?

She changed the amount of people from previous accusations...and the amount of females and males at the party as well. She changed how many boys were in the room. There were a couple other things that I don't remember at the moment because I woke up a little while ago and it wasn't important enough yesterday for me to have to try to remember it.
 

Andrew

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What's wrong with having feelings and being liberal? Nothing!
Nothing wrong with feelings but feelings are not evidence enough. This was an attempt to stall and nothing less, they had no intention of protecting Ford that's obvious.
 

Albion

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What's wrong with having feelings and being liberal? Nothing!

Not so fast. Lets consider the behavior of these liberals who are members of the Senate Judiciary Committee. You shall know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:16)...and we have just seen what the fruits are. :scared:
 

Josiah

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To Me....


1. Yeah, we have a classic "she says, he says". Both seem sincere; I suspect both are telling the "truth" as they remember. But people OFTEN sincerely recall things wrongly and testify wrongly - happens in nearly every court case. Science has proven how easily this happens (my sister does research into this). Memories are surprisingly malable.


2. Under the Rule of Law, the accused is innocent until proven to be guilty. While this often places the accuser at a significant disadvantage, it is CRITICAL to the legal system and without it, we have no Rule of Law.


3. Ms. Ford's version has been discredited by several, who have sworn testimony that Kavenaugh wasn't even there. She has not presented even ONE who will testify that he was even there, much less that this happened. She evidently does have some who say he got pretty drunk when he was a teen, but that doesn't make him guilty of this event. She specifically mention one witness who saw the whole thing, mentioned him by name, he testified it never happened. Ms. Ford was unable to present one witness, one piece of ANYTHING WHATSOEVER to substantiate this. Nothing. While Kavanaugh has a long list of people testifying under oath he wasn't even there. IMO, this breaks the "she says, he says."


4. This supposedly happened 36 years ago then Ms. Ford was 15 and attending a drunken teen party and Kavanaugh was 17. They were teens, she admitting to being where she should not have been and to drinking (which should say WHAT about HER character 36 years ago?). There is a presumption she (and the press) are making that one's maturity, responsibility and sexual practices are IDENTICAL forever.... that it is manditory that Kavanaugh and Ms. Ford's character, morality, maturity and interpersonal relationships are IDENTICAL now as when they were 15 and 17. I wonder about that assumption..... and why that says NOTHING about Ms. Ford.


5. The Dems SAT on all this for SIX WEEKS.... saying nothing in the hearings, saying nothing to Kavanaugh, saying nothing about the need to investigate. Senator Feinstein made the ABSURD point that she wanted to protect Ms. Ford's confidentiality; it's ABSURD because Congress OFTEN meets in closed sesson, at times to discuss TOP SECRET things and personal confidentialities (happens a LOT) and so everyone knows, Feinstein could have presented all this in closed, confidential session... could have asked for an investigation, etc., etc.... SIX WEEKS before she said anything. NONE OF THIS mattered a bit until the 12th hour when it was clear Kavanaugh had the votes to get confirmed... and then BIG PUBLIC SHOW and all this juicy teen sex stuff. The Dems will scream this is being rushed, they need more time - but who STALLED for SIX WEEKS on this? They scream about how sad it is for Ms. Ford to have to be so public, but they could have done this in closed session. Clearly this is nothing but a stall tactic.... and one can't help but fear that Ms. Ford is being used by the Dems here (although I hope not intentionally).


6. The hypocrisy STINKS. The Dems (and Senator Feinstein and Ms Clinton) - some of the same senators involved now - all insisted that what those 8 women who alleged the PRESIDENT CLINTON did was ... not to be believed and had no relevance to his job as President. Hilary threw all those women under the bus. The Dems all argued that there was NOTHING to substantiate these women and that it had no relevance to the PRESIDENTS performance in his job. After all, these happened MONTHS ago.... the accusers were adults and sober.... and it happened (in some cases) in the White House so it's just not relevant or credible. Hum..... but ONE woman, who was 15 and drunk and at a party she should not have been at, 36 years ago, accusing a boy of doing FAR LESS than what Clinton ultimately admitted to doing (not that any cared).... for an office less than PRESIDENT... that's super relevant and that woman is to be believed no matter what. Hum..... Can you spell hypocrisy?





.
 
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Lamb

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What's really bothering me is that a lot of people are viewing all this through an emotional lens instead of one of objectivity.
 

Josiah

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What's really bothering me is that a lot of people are viewing all this through an emotional lens instead of one of objectivity.


... and I think many are viewing this PURELY as political, so that truth is irrelevant, Ford and Kavanaugh are irrelevant, it's all pro-Trump or anti-Trump. And whatever victims get in the way of hating or loving Trump, whatever trash is made of the Constitution doesn't matter.


... and of course, this all comes in the milieu of the "me, too" movement (which IMO has gone too far). So again, it doesn't matter if Kavanaugh is guilty, only that a lot of men are and so Kavanaugh needs to pay for that! For many, he's the poster boy for male preditors (whether he personally did anything or not) and he's gotta pay.
 

tango

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What's wrong with having feelings and being liberal? Nothing!

A testimony needs more than feelings to be credible. If someone wants to claim that a specific person assaulted them they need hard facts to back their assertion. It's for the accuser to provide evidence of guilt, not for the accused to provide evidence of innocence. So far there seems to be nothing except an unsubstantiated claim.
 

tango

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.... and in the meantime the diehards of the #MeToo movement would just love us to think that if we disbelieve this one woman it logically follows that we disbelieve all women who make similar claims.
 

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The wrong is in dragging him through the mud with absolutely no proof, what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty
There may be proof. The woman is credible. I never said he was not innocent. Why are you so sure he IS innocent? Let the FBI investigate.
 

MoreCoffee

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The wrong is in dragging him through the mud with absolutely no proof, what ever happened to innocent until proven guilty

I saw the testimony of an Elder from Jehovah's witnesses to the Royal commission on sex abuse in institutions in Australia and in his testimony he remembered saying, to a women who had been sexually abused by a JW "deacon" and who was about to bring her case to the royal commission, "all you'd be doing is dragging Jehovah's name through the mud". He said it to silence her, or at least to try to get her to be silent. She did bring her case to the royal commission and he had to testify before it. He regretted his words. The thing that made the testimony interesting for me is that I know the elder, I new him well, we worked together for many years. I think it is not a bad thing for an abused women who bring her case before the authorities and if it damaged the reputation of somebody then so be it, if she is telling the truth then that will come out and if she isn't then that will come out. But silencing the victims of sexual abuse is not a viable approach it only makes the wickedness of sexual abuse worse.
 

psalms 91

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Big difference between a victim and one who isnt. No a woman should not autoomatically be believed, there should be proof to back up what she is saying and if not
 
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