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    Ethics & Debate Center - Thread: 30 year gap in accusation and consequences

    1. #1
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      30 year gap in accusation and consequences

      Kavanaugh's accuser waited 30 years to avenge the alleged sexual assault by doing what she thinks is her civic duty in stopping him from becoming a Supreme Court Judge.

      We don't know all the evidence yet to know who is telling the truth. It could be that both perceive their version to be the truth.

      How would you feel if someone from your high school years came forward with an accusation? Should it affect your current life? Do you think that (from what we know so far) Kavanaugh should not be allowed to be on the Supreme Court? Was his actions as a minor harsh enough to warrant preventing him from being on the court?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    2. #2
      psalms 91's Avatar
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      I dont think he should be denied the seat and I dont think the accusations are credible
      Isaiah 40:31

    3. #3
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Kavanaugh's accuser waited 30 years to avenge the alleged sexual assault by doing what she thinks is her civic duty in stopping him from becoming a Supreme Court Judge.

      We don't know all the evidence yet to know who is telling the truth. It could be that both perceive their version to be the truth.

      How would you feel if someone from your high school years came forward with an accusation? Should it affect your current life? Do you think that (from what we know so far) Kavanaugh should not be allowed to be on the Supreme Court? Was his actions as a minor harsh enough to warrant preventing him from being on the court?
      Quite aside from the problem of every part of this specific situation being politically loaded, the key problem is that there's really very little that can be done to establish the facts so long after the alleged events.

      Some say Kavanaugh should welcome an FBI investigation so he can clear his name before joining the Supreme Court. The trouble is that in the politically charged environment, especially with the #MeToo movement sometimes seeming to seek to believe women automatically and disbelieve men automatically, it's hard to see how anyone can come out of this unsmeared. If the FBI concludes there is credible evidence that he may have acted inappropriately as a hormone-driven teenager it doesn't necessarily mean he's unfit for the Supreme Court; if the FBI concludes there is no credible evidence it still leaves open the possibility he is a sex pest who only got away with it because his victim was afraid to come forward.

      Of course it's almost impossible to defend yourself against an allegation that you did something improper many decades ago. If a woman I knew at university suddenly came forward and claimed I assaulted her during a party back then there's realistically no way I could prove I didn't. Chances are I couldn't even prove whether or not I actually attended the party and frankly anyone who insisted I had been at the party would lack credibility because the simple truth is we don't typically remember every single detail of every single thing we did decades after the face.

      Throw alcohol into the mix, as often happens at student parties, and the situation just gets more and more blurred.

      The fact both of Kavanaugh's accusers seem to be Democrat activists does little to ease the suspicion that this is more about mudslinging than seeking truth. If a Republican activist came forward and said he assaulted her at university, at this point I'd regard the claim as being a lot more credible. What we have now looks more like a campaign to disrupt a process, than any desire to actually uncover truth.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    4. #4
      jsimms435's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Kavanaugh's accuser waited 30 years to avenge the alleged sexual assault by doing what she thinks is her civic duty in stopping him from becoming a Supreme Court Judge.

      We don't know all the evidence yet to know who is telling the truth. It could be that both perceive their version to be the truth.

      How would you feel if someone from your high school years came forward with an accusation? Should it affect your current life? Do you think that (from what we know so far) Kavanaugh should not be allowed to be on the Supreme Court? Was his actions as a minor harsh enough to warrant preventing him from being on the court?
      If the accusations are credible then I would vote against him being a Supreme Court judge. I believe a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court is such a high honor that you would be held to the highest standards.

    5. Likes MoreCoffee liked this post
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      Oh the HYPOCRISY of it all.....


      100% of the Democrats in Congress (including Senator Feinstein) and also Mrs. Clinton all insisted that the MANY credible women who accused PRESIDENT Bill Clinton of FAR worse things (all adults at the time, all sober at the time) ... of things not 36 years but a few months ago.... not at some drunken teen party but in at least one case in The White House.... they all insisted these women should not be considered, all their accusations should be dismissed... none of it mattered.... a persons personal life is his personal life and has NO BEARING on anything. And the press all went along.

      Now, some of these same congressmen... and same newpapers and reporters.... INSIST that anything said by one who CLAIMS that 36 years ago, when they were at an illegal teen party and drunk out of their minds, the person who was a teenager 36 years years ago, did things (much less than Clinton was accused of doing)... and it's all relevant, and it all means that ERGO this man TODAY is an irresponsible, immoral, drunken pervert who does bad things at drunken teen parties.

      Oh, the hypocrisy of it all.....




      .
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    7. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      If the accusations are credible then I would vote against him being a Supreme Court judge. I believe a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court is such a high honor that you would be held to the highest standards.
      The question is how you determine what counts as "credible".

      I agree that anyone considered for appointment to the Supreme Court should be held to the highest standards, but those standards also have to be realistic. If someone has demonstrated good character for several decades should they be disqualified for indiscretions during their teenage years?
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    8. #7
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Kavanaugh's accuser waited 30 years to avenge the alleged sexual assault by doing what she thinks is her civic duty in stopping him from becoming a Supreme Court Judge.
      "avenge"? that's a bit emotive isn't it?
      We don't know all the evidence yet to know who is telling the truth. It could be that both perceive their version to be the truth.
      There are three accusers about at least three events. Each independent of the others.
      How would you feel if someone from your high school years came forward with an accusation? Should it affect your current life? Do you think that (from what we know so far) Kavanaugh should not be allowed to be on the Supreme Court? Was his actions as a minor harsh enough to warrant preventing him from being on the court?
      Let the evidence be gathered and weighed, that may take a little time, some weeks or months, and then when all the evidence is gathered it can be evaluated and a decision made. There's no objective reason to rush the matter. The job will not disappear.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    9. #8
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      I'm waiting to see if there is any credible evidence. Then I will say what I think.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Ruth View Post
      I'm waiting to see if there is any credible evidence. Then I will say what I think.
      To find that and know that what is found is credible needs an investigation that looks into the evidence from witnesses, documents, and whatever other sources of evidence are available.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

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    13. #10
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      To find that and know that what is found is credible needs an investigation that looks into the evidence from witnesses, documents, and whatever other sources of evidence are available.
      To hold an investigation requires a report to the police. Has Dr Ford provided such a report yet?

      Assuming she does, what sort of evidence do you think might exist and still be credible after nearly 40 years?

      There is perhaps some merit in slowing the process down a little to attempt to determine whether the allegations cast credible doubt on the character of Brett Kavanaugh. There is a lot of reason to be suspicious that the whole process is little more than mud slinging, even if only based on the timing of everything. And it's hard to see what evidence might be available, other than a stream of people who testify that they believe one or other person, which doesn't actually prove much of anything.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

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