The 73 canonical books of Holy Scripture.

MennoSota · Jul 22, 2018

Albion said:
Fine, but your contention was that the number of times something has been read determines its worth. If that were so, Pilgrims Progress would be way, way down the list.

Wrong again. And I did not say that.

Pilgrims Progress is read worldwide at a much greater volume than the apocryphal books and PP has had a much greater spiritual impact.

psalms 91 · Jul 22, 2018

Point is that they are helpful

Albion · Jul 22, 2018

MennoSota said:
Pilgrims Progress is read worldwide at a much greater volume than the apocryphal books and PP has had a much greater spiritual impact.

Neither of those statements is true, but you can read PP all you want and take whatever interests you from it. No one is stopping you.

MennoSota · Jul 22, 2018

Albion said:
Neither of those statements is true, but you can read PP all you want and take whatever interests you from it. No one is stopping you.

I disagree. Pilgrims Progress is read by more people with greater spiritual response than the apocryphal books.

Albion · Jul 22, 2018

MennoSota said:
I disagree. Pilgrims Progress is read by more people with greater spiritual response than the apocryphal books.

Of course you disagree. You're still wrong.

Arsenios · Jul 22, 2018

Well, I mean, you know what I mean...

You can have the full-meal-deal, the Bible with all the Books, however construed...

OR...

You can get the Puritan Condensed Reader's Digest Version...

OR...

Something in between...

More important is what one DOES about what one reads...

Arsenios

MennoSota · Jul 22, 2018

Albion said:
Of course you disagree. You're still wrong.

Show how many people have read the apocryphal books this year as opposed to Pilgrims Progress. Then you will have solid data. Otherwise we disagree by opinion only.

MoreCoffee · Jul 22, 2018

Lämmchen said:
That's really strange. My husband is Catholic and his past churches have had bible studies and they've discussed sections from those books.

Readings from the deuterocanon are part of Sunday and Weekday Liturgies.

Andrew · Jul 22, 2018

I really don't see what it matters, it's all OT moral stories so what's the fuss? The NT never changes, that's more important.

MoreCoffee · Jul 22, 2018

DHoffmann said:
I really don't see what it matters, it's all OT moral stories so what's the fuss? The NT never changes, that's more important.

Apparently the New Testament is not more important for some participating in this thread. And since the new testament reveals what is hidden in the old testament if follows that if one's old testament is eviscerated some things will be forever hidden from the reader of the eviscerated old testament.

MennoSota · Jul 23, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
Apparently the New Testament is not more important for some participating in this thread. And since the new testament reveals what is hidden in the old testament if follows that if one's old testament is eviscerated some things will be forever hidden from the reader of the eviscerated old testament.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God...
Thus, since God did not inspire the apocryphal books, they are not of any canonical value.
God's expression of salvation by grace through faith is the same from Genesis to Revelation. One cannot ignore the Old Testament as though it isn't beneficial to knowing God's redemption.

Andrew · Jul 23, 2018

MennoSota said:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God...
Thus, since God did not inspire the apocryphal books, they are not of any canonical value.
God's expression of salvation by grace through faith is the same from Genesis to Revelation. One cannot ignore the Old Testament as though it isn't beneficial to knowing God's redemption.

Jude quotes from the book of enoch
============
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jude 1:14-15
===============
9. And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness
which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.
Enoch 1:9
============

MennoSota · Jul 23, 2018

DHoffmann said:
Jude quotes from the book of enoch
============
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jude 1:14-15
===============
9. And behold! He cometh with ten thousands of His holy ones
To execute judgement upon all,
And to destroy all the ungodly:
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness
which they have ungodly committed,
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.
Enoch 1:9
============

This is true. The quote is inspired by God because God inspired Jude. That doesn't make all of Enoch inspired.

Josiah · Jul 23, 2018

MennoSota said:
This is true. The quote is inspired by God because God inspired Jude. That doesn't make all of Enoch inspired.

What he said. Very true.

It is ABSURD to claim that just because a phrase appears to be the same as appears in some other writing, ERGO that writing MUST be the canonical, inspired Word of God and a part of a tome at the time found in a floppy leather cover with gold letters "HOLY BIBLE" on it. Just silly.

And there is NO VERSE anywhere in the Bible that QUOTES from some DEUTERO book and states, "God says....." Or "In the Bible, we read...."

EVEN IF a preacher were to quote from say the New York Times newspaper in a sermon, that would NOT prove that ERGO the New York Times is a canonical book of the Bible, infallible, inspired by God, and found in every leather bound tome of "The Holy Bible" in the world.

Sometimes the claims people make are just silly.

.

MennoSota · Jul 23, 2018

Indeed. By that logic, when Paul quotes a Cretin poet in Acts 17, we would be required to declare the entire book written by that poet as inspired by God.

Josiah said:
What he said. Very true.

It is ABSURD to claim that just because a phrase appears to be the same as appears in some other writing, ERGO that writing MUST be the canonical, inspired Word of God and a part of a tome at the time found in a floppy leather cover with gold letters "HOLY BIBLE" on it. Just silly.

And there is NO VERSE anywhere in the Bible that QUOTES from some DEUTERO book and states, "God says....." Or "In the Bible, we read...."

EVEN IF a preacher were to quote from say the New York Times newspaper in a sermon, that would NOT prove that ERGO the New York Times is a canonical book of the Bible, infallible, inspired by God, and found in every leather bound tome of "The Holy Bible" in the world.

Sometimes the claims people make are just silly.

.

psalms 91 · Jul 23, 2018

I am curious why it matters. If you want to read and learn ok and if you dont then dont.

MoreCoffee · Jul 23, 2018

psalms 91 said:
I am curious why it matters. If you want to read and learn ok and if you dont then dont.

The motive behind suppressing the 7 books and parts of Daniel and parts of Esther is fear. Fear of what may be revealed. Fear of what may be taught. Fear of being rejected by one's denomination because of reading 'forbidden" books.

Josiah · Jul 23, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
The motive behind suppressing the 7 books and parts of Daniel and parts of Esther is fear. Fear of what may be revealed. Fear of what may be taught. Fear of being rejected by one's denomination because of reading 'forbidden" books.

The motive why the RCC has dumped so any of the Deutero books is egoism....

The motive why that singular denomination has dumped all of Christian Tradition to make the Deutero books NOT Deutero is its singular late desire to pretend there is some support for it's new, unique Dogma of Purgatory (but it doesn't work).

.

MoreCoffee · Jul 29, 2018

Josiah said:
The motive why the RCC has dumped so any of the Deutero books is egoism....

The motive why that singular denomination has dumped all of Christian Tradition to make the Deutero books NOT Deutero is its singular late desire to pretend there is some support for it's new, unique Dogma of Purgatory (but it doesn't work).

Catholics have retained each and every canonical book of the holy scriptures.

There's a mistake or two in the narrator's commentary, for example the bible was gathered into a single book long before Gutenberg's printed editions were created. Manuscripts of the whole bible in one "book" go back at least to the time of the codex Vaticanus and the codex Sainiticus, but such mistakes can be forgiven I hope.

Albion · Jul 29, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
Catholics have retained each and every canonical book of the holy scriptures.

According to Catholics, that is. Protestants can say the same thing about their churches with just as much certainty.

In other words, to make the claim in the first place is to engage in more denominational strutting that serves no good purpose on this forum.

The 73 canonical books of Holy Scripture.

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