• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Embarrassed
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
    Results 1 to 10 of 31

    News Center - Thread: Universal Basic Income

    1. #1
      Lämmchen's Avatar
      Lämmchen is offline God's Lil Lamb
      Administrator
      Supporting Member
      Community Team
      Married
      Gloria In Excelsis Deo
       
      Mood:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Posts
      15,680
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      198,683
      CH Challenge
      83
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (142,214 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      191,607
      Level
      91
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      75.29%
      Rep Power
      799

      Universal Basic Income

      California will be the first to try out the concept of paying 100 residents $500 a month with no strings attached. It's called Universal Basic Income.

      http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018...e-program.html
      Luckily, the experimental program won’t deplete the city’s coffers as it benefits from financial backing by wealthy Silicon Valley moguls. One of those backers is Facebook co-founder Chris Hughes, whose the Economic Security Project contributed $1 million to the project.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    2. #2
      jsimms435's Avatar
      jsimms435 is online now Expert Member
      Married
      Mood:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Posts
      2,665
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      4,159
      CH Challenge
      84
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      14,990
      Level
      35
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      34.29%
      Rep Power
      426
      Seems like this is just teaching people to be lazy and expect hand outs to me. There are plenty of jobs right now if you want to work

    3. #3
      psalms 91's Avatar
      psalms 91 is offline Silver Member
      Moderator
      Supporting Member
      69
      Mood:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Location
      Pa
      Posts
      12,507
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      5,844
      CH Challenge
      89
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (2,834,221 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      54,055
      Level
      58
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      86.9%
      Rep Power
      586
      Or helps people make ends meet, I would love an extra 500 a month as I am on a fixed income and a little old to work, I am 69 and have a bad hip, feet that may also need an operation and diabetes so not really in shape to work.
      Isaiah 40:31

    4. Likes MoreCoffee, Ruth liked this post
    5. #4
      Arsenios's Avatar
      Arsenios is offline Veteran Member
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Apr 2018
      Location
      Pacific North West
      Posts
      1,204
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      5,907
      CH Challenge
      352
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      4,165
      Level
      20
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      46.43%
      Rep Power
      88
      Mankind needs labors...

      The Curse of God is the Blessing for man...

      Gen 3:19
      In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread,
      till thou return unto the ground;
      for out of it wast thou taken:
      for dust thou art,
      and unto dust
      shalt thou return.




      Live a life without labors and you will NEED drugs...

      $500 will give joy for a night or two to a drug addict...

      Then back to stealing...

      100 persons x $500/mo = $50,000 a month x 20 months = $1 Million...

      Follow the personal stories of Lotto winners...

      A study in bad outcomes...

      Blessings are the curse...

      Curses are the Blessings...

      California is turning into a human cesspool...

      Arsenios

    6. #5
      Lämmchen's Avatar
      Lämmchen is offline God's Lil Lamb
      Administrator
      Supporting Member
      Community Team
      Married
      Gloria In Excelsis Deo
       
      Mood:
      Cool
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Posts
      15,680
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      198,683
      CH Challenge
      83
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (142,214 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      191,607
      Level
      91
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      75.29%
      Rep Power
      799
      In an article on another news site I read that they're comparing this somehow to the money that Alaskan residents receive from the pipeline revenue. That money helps them through the winters, saving for college tuitions, etc...

      What Bill said brought up a good point in that there are people who can't just get out and get a job to supplement their income and this would benefit them. But I think the program was meant to give people more of an opportunity to better themselves with the money, not relying on receiving it monthly but having a chance to do something. Whether that something is paying for schooling that could get them a better job someday or help them while maybe the breadwinner is down on his luck at the moment. I can see a benefit and yet we see from history that people become complacent and begin to rely on the handout and keep expecting it to be given to them.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    7. Likes psalms 91 liked this post
    8. #6
      psalms 91's Avatar
      psalms 91 is offline Silver Member
      Moderator
      Supporting Member
      69
      Mood:
      Happy
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Location
      Pa
      Posts
      12,507
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      5,844
      CH Challenge
      89
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (2,834,221 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      54,055
      Level
      58
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      86.9%
      Rep Power
      586
      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      In an article on another news site I read that they're comparing this somehow to the money that Alaskan residents receive from the pipeline revenue. That money helps them through the winters, saving for college tuitions, etc...

      What Bill said brought up a good point in that there are people who can't just get out and get a job to supplement their income and this would benefit them. But I think the program was meant to give people more of an opportunity to better themselves with the money, not relying on receiving it monthly but having a chance to do something. Whether that something is paying for schooling that could get them a better job someday or help them while maybe the breadwinner is down on his luck at the moment. I can see a benefit and yet we see from history that people become complacent and begin to rely on the handout and keep expecting it to be given to them.
      As one who runs a program that jelps low income I can attest to the fact that some are very grateful for the help and others do see it as an entitlemment so I have seen both sides but at least my view is that it is there to help people and it is not up to me to judge so when someone complains about what we have or not have I gently remind them that it is a blessing no matter what is given and we are not short of things usually so there is no real reason to complain.
      Isaiah 40:31

    9. #7
      Ruth's Avatar
      Ruth is offline Expert Member
      Mood:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Jun 2015
      Location
      Midwest
      Posts
      3,939
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      9,761
      CH Challenge
      8
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (18,195 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      16,096
      Level
      36
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      40.18%
      Rep Power
      345
      Quote Originally Posted by psalms 91 View Post
      Or helps people make ends meet, I would love an extra 500 a month as I am on a fixed income and a little old to work, I am 69 and have a bad hip, feet that may also need an operation and diabetes so not really in shape to work.
      I agree Bill!

    10. Likes psalms 91 liked this post
    11. #8
      tango's Avatar
      tango is offline Bronze Member
      Valued Contributor
      Supporting Member
      Married
      ... and you shall live ...
       
      Mood:
      Bemused
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Location
      Elsewhere
      Posts
      6,235
      CH Cash
      2,711
      CH Challenge
      32
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (4,663,346 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      28,364
      Level
      45
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      83.35%
      Rep Power
      707
      As with so much else the devil is in the detail.

      A pilot scheme giving 100 people $500/month means $50,000/month total or $600,000 in a year. In budgets at state level that kind of money and more is lost in rounding errors. The trouble comes when you try and make that so-called universal basic income, you know, universal. If you're talking about making it universal across the country then now you've got about 300,000,000 people so giving them $500/month each means you need to find $150,000,000,000 every month (that's $150bn for those who don't feel like counting zeros). That means every year you need $1.8trn to fund it. Where is that kind of money going to come from? Don't think you can just be taxing the rich because the people at the top will soon find ways to avoid paying the new tax, so the idea is going to do little more than crush the middle classes for the sake of handing out free money.

      Over time the chances are it won't help as much as it might seem at first anyway. Some people will use the money to fund something useful - whether it be some form of education or training, maybe being able to buy and run a car so they can work further afield or whatever. Others will simply figure it's some free beer money. In any event throwing money around usually doesn't help the people it purports to help because, as money devalues, so prices rise and soak up any benefit. If by some government edict every dollar became notionally worth $10 there might be a flurry of activity as people sought to cash in their money for ten times face value but it would be a very short time before the price of everything increased to soak it up.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    12. #9
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
      MoreCoffee is offline Gold Member
      Girding loins for the battle.
       
      Mood:
      Awesome
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Posts
      15,906
      CH Cash
      19,316
      CH Challenge
      695
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      43,178
      Level
      54
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      4.15%
      Rep Power
      673
      The idea behind a universal basic income is to make a living wage available to everybody regardless of their status as working or not. The reason for creating it is both to benefit people who are unable to work as well as people who do work but have low wages. But because it is universal everybody gets it. People who do work and have a decent income will probably pay more than the UBI amount in taxes so the net effect will be a tax cut for them. People on pensions and the like would have their pension replaced with UBI. The unemployed and unemployable would receive UBI. If your industry is automated (robots take your job) then you'd get the UBI to feed yourself while you retrain.

      People are getting worried about self-driving cars and trucks and trains and boats ending all transportation industry jobs they are also worried about diagnostic AI ending many medical industry jobs and the same goes for computer industry jobs. The truth is that nearly every industry that currently exists may be AI and robot 'employment' only in the future. So the taxes would come from taxes levied against the 'income' produced by robots and AI with people receiving UBI from those taxes.

      Time will tell if any of this comes into normal day to day experience within our lifetime.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    13. #10
      tango's Avatar
      tango is offline Bronze Member
      Valued Contributor
      Supporting Member
      Married
      ... and you shall live ...
       
      Mood:
      Bemused
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Location
      Elsewhere
      Posts
      6,235
      CH Cash
      2,711
      CH Challenge
      32
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (4,663,346 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      28,364
      Level
      45
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      83.35%
      Rep Power
      707
      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      The idea behind a universal basic income is to make a living wage available to everybody regardless of their status as working or not. The reason for creating it is both to benefit people who are unable to work as well as people who do work but have low wages. But because it is universal everybody gets it. People who do work and have a decent income will probably pay more than the UBI amount in taxes so the net effect will be a tax cut for them. People on pensions and the like would have their pension replaced with UBI. The unemployed and unemployable would receive UBI. If your industry is automated (robots take your job) then you'd get the UBI to feed yourself while you retrain.

      People are getting worried about self-driving cars and trucks and trains and boats ending all transportation industry jobs they are also worried about diagnostic AI ending many medical industry jobs and the same goes for computer industry jobs. The truth is that nearly every industry that currently exists may be AI and robot 'employment' only in the future. So the taxes would come from taxes levied against the 'income' produced by robots and AI with people receiving UBI from those taxes.

      Time will tell if any of this comes into normal day to day experience within our lifetime.
      I'm aware of what the idea is. The trouble is whether it would work or not. I don't doubt it would be a lovely thought to have lots of people given a living wage regardless of whether they do anything useful or not. I wouldn't say no to some free money for not doing anything. I can't imagine many people would be opposed to it.

      The part of your post I bolded is something I guess you got mixed up. If people pay more in tax than their UBI it works out as a tax increase, not a tax cut.

      How do you think you're going to levy taxes on the income produced by robots? A robot doesn't have a tax domicile and we've already seen how multinationals can pretty much choose where they want to be based and how much tax they would like to pay. Unless anyone thinks like companies set to make untold billions from replacing human labor with robots are suddenly going to become very charitable and not do everything in their power to avoid taxes we'd better come up with a good way to figure out how to pay a 13-figure annual bill and even a figure as low as $1,800,000,000,000 each and every year is only giving people $500/month. I don't know about you but I can't live on $500/month. Make it $2,000/month (still probably not enough for people with mortgages, student loans, car payments etc) and you just boosted the bill to $7,200,000,000,000 every year. That should do wonders for the national debt.

      You could always make it work like the UK's income support, where you're allowed to earn some token amount before everything you earn is deducted, pound for pound, from your income support. Never underestimate the ability of government to create powerful disincentives to do anything useful.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •