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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: Life of Privilege Explained in a $100 Race

    1. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      I'm not bringing the immigration debate here. I'm asking how we view immigrants who have come here and then struggle to get wealthy. I'm asking, how do we view and treat those who were not granted a privilege that others have in the church?
      The immigrants who come here legally can receive assistance from our government. Do we have privilege in the church? I suppose I don't understand that comment.

      I don't think I ever asked on the street if a person was a legal immigrant, illegal or natural citizen as I gave money to their hand that was held out. Should I be keeping track?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    2. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      The immigrants who come here legally can receive assistance from our government. Do we have privilege in the church? I suppose I don't understand that comment.

      I don't think I ever asked on the street if a person was a legal immigrant, illegal or natural citizen as I gave money to their hand that was held out. Should I be keeping track?
      Either I am not getting my point across or you are struggling to understand privilege and how it gives people a big advantage over others that plays itself out in our churches.

    3. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Either I am not getting my point across or you are struggling to understand privilege and how it gives people a big advantage over others that plays itself out in our churches.
      I don't understand how being in a church makes me privileged? Except that I have God's Word feeding me for salvation.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    4. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      I don't understand how being in a church makes me privileged? Except that I have God's Word feeding me for salvation.
      Having the right last name may privilege you. Having a lot of money may privilege you. Being a male may privilege you. Having...(add what you want) may privilege you.
      Having privileges that others don't is not inherently wrong, but it can make us blind to the struggles that others are having in the church. It can make us ignorant of the needs. It can make us paternalistic or maternalistic in how we treat others because of our position. We can assume that the position and status we have is somehow better because we have more.
      Pride is a very subtle thing that affects us all. Privilege can breed pride that we aren't even aware of.

    5. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Having the right last name may privilege you. Having a lot of money may privilege you. Being a male may privilege you. Having...(add what you want) may privilege you.
      Having privileges that others don't is not inherently wrong, but it can make us blind to the struggles that others are having in the church. It can make us ignorant of the needs. It can make us paternalistic or maternalistic in how we treat others because of our position. We can assume that the position and status we have is somehow better because we have more.
      Pride is a very subtle thing that affects us all. Privilege can breed pride that we aren't even aware of.
      Status? What kind of church do you attend?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    6. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Status? What kind of church do you attend?
      Are you the only member of your church, with all persons having your last name?
      Why do you think Paul, James, Peter and John had to write so much about the body and everyone having gifts that are valuable? The church is full of sinners who carry pride. I have no doubt your church has its unofficial status club...of which you may be blissfully unaware. Either that or your church is dying.

    7. #17
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      Frankly, my last name didn't mean much in my church growing up. My dad was usher, Elder, Deacon, go-to guy, whatever... You know what that made me? Not a thing in the Youth Group - not to the leader, not to the pastor of that church at the time, not to peers in the youth group, nothing.

      Pres. Obama, before he was elected, said "when you spread the wealth around, everybody wins". Somehow, he didn't get the memo that (despite my privilege) I wondered where my next meal was coming from, how the rent was getting paid, and how I could keep the electric from being cut off. Turns out the last one was the only thing I did qualify to get some assistance with. Supplemental income and unemployment? Forget it. I worked a contractual position and was laid off - but because it was contractual, I didn't qualify. My neighbors with the Cadillac Escalade (not considered "disposable income"), had assistance, unemployment, and medicaid. Who is privileged really does matter more than who had what in the home growing up. That guy at the back of the line, as it turned out, might just get that $100 after all.

      You know what my "privilege" does for me in my line of work right now? Nothing. Managers are middle-aged women and new-hires are recent 20-something College graduates, mostly female. I've had the education (done the research, read the books) on 'privilege'. Most of the "evidence" for privilege goes back to the race riots of the 1960's and ends around the early 90's. Recent research will typically refer back to the early work. I've learned to read with a critical mind (e.g. analytical), and was truly surprised at the insistence of those who promote privilege that we accept data from the 60's and 70's as empirically valid today. One major proponent (white) excluded himself as being privileged because he was Jewish.

      Perhaps the invisible knapsack is invisible because culture has attempted to load us down with what doesn't exist. The only exception to the rule that I have personally seen and experienced are indigenous cultures in Canada who have endured centuries of abuse, trauma, and loss of culture and way of life. They still suffer the effects of these abuses today. For them, I will freely admit that Europeans have walked all over their way of life and stolen from them what was theirs - dignity, respect, culture, land, heritage, language, safety, security, I could go on...

      *End rant
      I can't stop the world from turning around, or the pull of the moon on the tide...
      But I don't believe that we're in this alone, I believe we're along for the ride..
      - Dream Theater

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    9. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Are you the only member of your church, with all persons having your last name?
      Why do you think Paul, James, Peter and John had to write so much about the body and everyone having gifts that are valuable? The church is full of sinners who carry pride. I have no doubt your church has its unofficial status club...of which you may be blissfully unaware. Either that or your church is dying.
      I guess I'm blissfully unaware that there is any status club at my church. We're a small church and it's mostly older people. I'm the only person there with my last name and it hasn't benefited me. We're a diverse church with different colors and accents. All I know is that word and sacrament are given and we continue to be a liturgical church and that at times I get to sing for God and the congregation. When we pass the peace everyone seems genuinely happy to greet each other in the name of the Lord and it goes on longer than it should and the organist has to start playing for the offering to begin.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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    11. #19
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      I guess I'm blissfully unaware that there is any status club at my church. We're a small church and it's mostly older people. I'm the only person there with my last name and it hasn't benefited me. We're a diverse church with different colors and accents. All I know is that word and sacrament are given and we continue to be a liturgical church and that at times I get to sing for God and the congregation. When we pass the peace everyone seems genuinely happy to greet each other in the name of the Lord and it goes on longer than it should and the organist has to start playing for the offering to begin.
      Perhaps this passage will better express how we recognize privilege and then respond to others.
      Philippians 2:1-11
      [1]Is there any encouragement from belonging to Christ? Any comfort from his love? Any fellowship together in the Spirit? Are your hearts tender and compassionate?
      [2]Then make me truly happy by agreeing wholeheartedly with each other, loving one another, and working together with one mind and purpose.
      [3]Don’t be selfish; don’t try to impress others. Be humble, thinking of others as better than yourselves.
      [4]Don’t look out only for your own interests, but take an interest in others, too.
      [5]You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
      [6]Though he was God, *** he did not think of equality with God *** as something to cling to.
      [7]Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; *** he took the humble position of a slave *** and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, ***
      [8]he humbled himself in obedience to God *** and died a criminal’s death on a cross.
      [9]Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor *** and gave him the name above all other names,
      [10]that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, *** in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
      [11]and every tongue declare that Jesus Christ is Lord, *** to the glory of God the Father.

    12. #20
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Perhaps this passage will better express how we recognize privilege and then respond to others.
      Philippians 2:1-11
      [1]Is there any encouragement from belonging to Christ? Any comfort from his love? Any fellowship together in the Spirit? Are your hearts tender and compassionate?
      [2]Then make me truly happy by agreeing wholeheartedly with each other, loving one another, and working together with one mind and purpose.
      [3]Don’t be selfish; don’t try to impress others. Be humble, thinking of others as better than yourselves.
      [4]Don’t look out only for your own interests, but take an interest in others, too.
      [5]You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had.
      [6]Though he was God, *** he did not think of equality with God *** as something to cling to.
      [7]Instead, he gave up his divine privileges; *** he took the humble position of a slave *** and was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form, ***
      [8]he humbled himself in obedience to God *** and died a criminal’s death on a cross.
      [9]Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor *** and gave him the name above all other names,
      [10]that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, *** in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
      [11]and every tongue declare that Jesus Christ is Lord, *** to the glory of God the Father.
      I belong to a wonderful church congregation then You're free to come visit!
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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