• Amused
  • Angry
  • Annoyed
  • Awesome
  • Bemused
  • Cool
  • Crazy
  • Crying
  • Depressed
  • Down
  • Embarrassed
  • Enraged
  • Friendly
  • Geeky
  • Grumpy
  • Happy
  • Hungry
  • Innocent
  • Meh
  • Piratey
  • Poorly
  • Sad
  • Secret
  • Shy
  • Sneaky
  • Tired
  • Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
    Results 21 to 28 of 28

    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: When was Satan created and does it effect the length of days in Genesis 1

    1. #21
      ImaginaryDay2's Avatar
      ImaginaryDay2 is offline Expert Member
      Supporting Member
      50
      O Lord, You keep safe both man
      and animal.
       
      Mood:
      Friendly
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2015
      Posts
      2,929
      Country
      Canada
      CH Cash
      218,790
      CH Challenge
      53
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (5,693 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      17,603
      Level
      37
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      77.27%
      Rep Power
      483
      Quote Originally Posted by JRT View Post
      Sorry, I have no use for numerology. I read the Bible for meaning and over the decades I have found that meaning to be far less literal than most Christians are prepared to understand. That's OK, it is a slow process and one that some never come to.
      @JRT - Permission for a split-off thread from this? It seems like a good discussion point. Thanks
      I can't stop the world from turning around, or the pull of the moon on the tide...
      But I don't believe that we're in this alone, I believe we're along for the ride..
      - Dream Theater

    2. #22
      JRT is offline Apprentice Member
      75
      Married
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Jul 2016
      Posts
      117
      Country
      Canada
      CH Cash
      765
      CH Challenge
      6
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      898
      Level
      10
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      43.01%
      Rep Power
      25
      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      @JRT - Permission for a split-off thread from this? It seems like a good discussion point. Thanks
      No problem. Go right ahead.

    3. #23
      DHoffmann's Avatar
      DHoffmann is offline Veteran Member
      34
      Mood:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      2,108
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      10,594
      CH Challenge
      159
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      10,795
      Level
      30
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      80.45%
      Rep Power
      328
      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      From what I've looked up there is some debate as to whether "heavens" in the Hebrew referred to all of creation, or merely the heavenly bodies. It could have both - it's broad enough to have included angels, but not definitive.
      3 Heavens:
      1rst Sky
      2nd Universe
      3rd Gods throne

      These three are if I may, the trinity of Heaven as is, since they are all refered to as "the heavens/the heaven" or "Heaven"
      note: Earth is separate from them, and soon enough "Heaven" will also be made new along with the Earth for the old Heaven and Earth will soon pass.
      The Word however remains unchanged

      This thread has potential, it could be split multiple times into new discussions.
      So let me say this, Revelation speaks of tribulation saints. These are they whom after the rapture are saved directly by the Word alone - the gospel without a church (after the church age).
      Which justifies the everlasting Word as the old world ends and the new begins (a thousand years) and the final judgment issues a new heaven and new world with the Word...

    4. #24
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Posts
      4,044
      CH Cash
      17,030
      CH Challenge
      232
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      16,515
      Level
      36
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      79.19%
      Rep Power
      424
      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      :/
      There are revelations of the Spirit tho... The Bible speaks to us and even asks us to listen to what the Spirit is saying, anyone can easily exploit the bible based on the literal sense but there is a special reason why Revelation for example is considered a blessing to the church... just saying that the reader can indeed find credible and deeper revelations as a patient saint other than one assuming a quick approach.
      When the plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense.
      The Bible, in most places, is pretty straightforward. Creating smoke where there is none is a deception, not a word from God.

    5. #25
      DHoffmann's Avatar
      DHoffmann is offline Veteran Member
      34
      Mood:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      2,108
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      10,594
      CH Challenge
      159
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      10,795
      Level
      30
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      80.45%
      Rep Power
      328
      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      When the plain sense makes common sense, seek no other sense.
      The Bible, in most places, is pretty straightforward. Creating smoke where there is none is a deception, not a word from God.
      can you decide where that smoke goes and who judges?

    6. #26
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Sep 2017
      Posts
      4,044
      CH Cash
      17,030
      CH Challenge
      232
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      16,515
      Level
      36
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      79.19%
      Rep Power
      424
      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      can you decide where that smoke goes and who judges?
      Does God give the gift of discernment? When an interpretation reduces the glory of God, we can very clearly judge that it is from hell.
      Does the Bible say that the devil (Satan) tempted Jesus in the wilderness? Is that true or a made up, non-literal event? These things aren't hard. God didn't go out of His way to complicate what He shared.

    7. #27
      DHoffmann's Avatar
      DHoffmann is offline Veteran Member
      34
      Mood:
      Amused
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2017
      Posts
      2,108
      Country
      United States
      CH Cash
      10,594
      CH Challenge
      159
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      10,795
      Level
      30
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      80.45%
      Rep Power
      328
      Quote Originally Posted by JRT View Post
      God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the Book of Job, and here it's clear that the angel Satan is not the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to talk with and to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney. There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. This misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up this concept during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. The Zoroastrians believed in both a god of good (Ahura-Mazda) and a god of evil (Ahrulman) engaged in a cosmic struggle. The Jews picked up and ran with this idea. It was easy to cast YHWH in the role of the God of good. They took also the angel ha'shaitan (Satan) in the book of Job and recast that character as Satan the near divine force of evil. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:”7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Jews never connected Satan to the serpent in the Garden of Eden. It was the second-century Christian martyr, Justin of Samaria, who was first to argue that Satan appeared as a serpent to tempt Adam and Eve to disobey God. Our present conception of Satan was completed in the lurid medieval imagination by people like the Italian poet Dante. It took well over a thousand years for mankind to invent Satan.
      This is from a Catholic sermon but it speaks well in the word.

    8. #28
      Pedrito's Avatar
      Pedrito is offline Clarifier
      Married
      Hyding from Jekyll
       
      Mood:
      ----
       
      Join Date
      Aug 2015
      Posts
      773
      Country
      Australia
      CH Cash
      4,663
      CH Challenge
      54
      Post Thanks / Like
      CH Cash
      (0 Banked)
      vBActivity - Stats
      Points
      4,034
      Level
      20
      vBActivity - Bars
      Lv. Percent
      18.52%
      Rep Power
      110
      ================================================== ============================================

      I would suggest that the creation of Satan and the day lengths in Genesis 1 are unrelated.

      Elsewhere it has been pointed out that if the Hebrew word “yom” is translated “time period” (a totally valid translation) instead of (a 24-hour) “day”, then the first chapter of Genesis and the modern sciences are in absolute agreement.

      So let’s look at Satan and the gap theory.

      ================================================== ============================================

      The Bible tells us that the Messiah in His prehuman form created the angelic and physical realms. (John 1:2-3, Colossians 1:15-17)

      If the understanding is correct, that Ezekiel 28:12-15 and Isaiah 14:12-14 act as windows into the spiritual realm, then we see that there was a supreme angel (Lucifer) who became corrupted by pride and ambition.

      One of the privileges bestowed upon Lucifer was his assignment to be with the peak of the self-replicating creation – the creatures with whom God would establish and had established a personal relationship. The assignment was within what is called the Garden of Eden.

      So we know that it was there and then that Lucifer became Satan.

      And we thus know that the “gap theory” (in one of its promoted forms, at least) is wrong.

      I hope that helps.


      ================================================== ============================================
      Seeking to understand with precision, God's holy and coherent revelation to us.

    Bookmarks

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •