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    Christian Theology - Thread: Election

    1. #11
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Since it's not God who gets the blame for man's damnation do we all agree then that it's man's fault?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    2. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Since it's not God who gets the blame for man's damnation do we all agree then that it's man's fault?
      Isn't it a mystery?

      Something that human beings do not know possibly because human beings do not have all the facts nor the mental capacity to deal with them all even if all the facts were possessed?

      Why do some folk worry so much about things that God has not revealed anyway?
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    3. #13
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Isn't it a mystery?

      Something that human beings do not know possibly because human beings do not have all the facts nor the mental capacity to deal with them all even if all the facts were possessed?

      Why do some folk worry so much about things that God has not revealed anyway?
      Here is what the Catholic catechism states: "Some persons do end up in Hell, but only by the exercise of their free will, such that they freely turn away from His grace, persisting in actual mortal sin unto the end." http://www.catechism.cc/articles/pre...-salvation.htm
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    4. #14
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Since it's not God who gets the blame for man's damnation do we all agree then that it's man's fault?
      Adam’s sin is our inheritance, thus we are born in corruption. It is our fault. We are guilty.
      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Isn't it a mystery?

      Something that human beings do not know possibly because human beings do not have all the facts nor the mental capacity to deal with them all even if all the facts were possessed?

      Why do some folk worry so much about things that God has not revealed anyway?
      No mystery. Because Adam sinned, we are all born sinners. Read 1 Corinthians 15:21-23...again...
      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Here is what the Catholic catechism states: "Some persons do end up in Hell, but only by the exercise of their free will, such that they freely turn away from His grace, persisting in actual mortal sin unto the end." http://www.catechism.cc/articles/pre...-salvation.htm
      Y'all are slipping away from election. Free-will is a conjured theory of man, designed to give man the power and control while making God passive and weak.
      God chooses/elects. He has done so from eternity past to eternity future. This is what it means to be Sovereign.

    5. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Here is what the Catholic catechism states: "Some persons do end up in Hell, but only by the exercise of their free will, such that they freely turn away from His grace, persisting in actual mortal sin unto the end." http://www.catechism.cc/articles/pre...-salvation.htm
      Sorry, my post may have been unclear. It was addressing the theology of blame attribution which is an essentially Calvinist preoccupation related to some theological theories within Calvinist systematics; specifically is the fall infralapsarian, supralapsarian, or sublapsarian? The lapsarianism debate is not even on the horizon for Catholic Christian theology. It is a uniquely predestinarian dispute. So my post was an oblique reply to lapsarianism.


      From a human perspective, according to what is clearly revealed in holy scripture and in holy Tradition the 'fault' for eternal separation from God is human as the CCC says.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    6. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Sorry, my post may have been unclear. It was addressing the theology of blame attribution which is an essentially Calvinist preoccupation related to some theological theories within Calvinist systematics; specifically is the fall infralapsarian, supralapsarian, or sublapsarian? The lapsarianism debate is not even on the horizon for Catholic Christian theology. It is a uniquely predestinarian dispute. So my post was an oblique reply to lapsarianism.


      From a human perspective, according to what is clearly revealed in holy scripture and in holy Tradition the 'fault' for eternal separation from God is human as the CCC says.
      Civilian Conservation Corp?

    7. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Civilian Conservation Corp?
      It would be better if your replies were serious.

      CCC is an abbreviation for Catechism of the Catholic Church
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    8. #18
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      It would be better if your replies were serious.

      CCC is an abbreviation for Catechism of the Catholic Church
      The Civilian Conservation Corp was a blessing to many families in the US during the Great Depression. That's my first thought when I see CCC.

    9. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      While I like Sproul and the effort he puts in to not be misunderstood, in this case he may have inadvertently muddied up the waters with words that don't assist a common person.
      For those who wonder what Sproul was saying.
      Sproul said that God never wills sinners to sin so God can judge them guilty. Sinners sin because sin reigns in them from the fall. God correctly judges sin with justice.
      God chose to pardon some by the atoning work of Christ. God was not required by any means to pardon. He does so by his kind mercy and grace.
      It's quite simple and amazing.
      What you espouse is both intellectually dishonest and makes GOD out as not all knowing, not all powerful, and not merciful.



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      Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

    10. #20
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by popsthebuilder View Post
      What you espouse is both intellectually dishonest and makes GOD out as not all knowing, not all powerful, and not merciful.

      Sent from my Nokia 6.1 using Tapatalk
      Nope. You must hate the God revealed in the Bible if you think God's election of humans makes him not knowing, not all powerful and not merciful.
      A different subject that you can discuss is God's justice. If fits well with His election. Perhaps you don't want God to be just.

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