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    Politics - Thread: About that "tariff" thing...

    1. #11
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      I don't disagree. However, many of those subsidies were amendments written into bills during the Obama administration by Democrats looking to protect their home interests. Many times, the amendments had nothing to do with the bill they were attached to. And such was the spending during that administration that Republicans insisted had to be curbed. And Republicans were chided mercilessly for that.
      True or not regarding who introduced the subsidies the fact remains that they are there.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    2. #12
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      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      Subsidies are not a TRUMP issue. Please stop with the Trump bashing. It's unbecoming
      Subsidies were specifically named by Donald at the G7 meeting, he even suggested getting rid of them all as well as all tariffs. Neither thing is likely to happen. If it did then the economies of all the nations involved would be disrupted seriously while adjustments were made and industries were closed and (maybe) new ones opened. It is not Donald bashing to name him for the things he says. If he shut his mouth (and twitter account) he'd be a smaller target.
      Last edited by MoreCoffee; 06-20-2018 at 05:38 PM.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    3. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      Saputo urges end to milk ingredients pricing system opposed by U.S.

      "Canada matches dairy production to domestic consumption, yielding less than 10 per cent of the market to imports. Above quotas, imported dairy faces tariffs of up to 314 per cent."

      But, you know Trump. He's crazy and has no idea what he's talking about with trade between U.S. and Canada

      Btw... 'Saputo' is a Canadian corporation.
      Meaning that Trump knows what he's talking about?

    4. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Bail outs are government subsidies too, so what is the sin if China bails out its factories when the USA bailed out its factories too? It is all huff and puff and the only people who are likely to suffer are the poor working people who will be thrown out of work or have reduced living standards because of a trade war.
      Depending on how things pan out maybe it could be good for the people at the bottom of the spectrum in the USA. As you said China has far more people and labor costs there are very low. If you've got lots of people, no unions and little concern about things like health and safety your labor costs will inevitably be lower than in a country that has unions expecting higher wages and that their staff not be endangered. If manufacturing moves to China because it's cheaper to make stuff there the obvious consequence is that manufacturing jobs here will disappear, putting those people out of work.

      Raising tariffs may encourage companies to manufacture locally rather than pay the tariffs, it's just a question of striking a balance so it doesn't end up being a very crude instrument that just hikes the price of everything.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    5. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      Meaning that Trump knows what he's talking about?
      Funny, isn't it? I remember him making this specific point some time ago in relation to NAFTA - he specifically brought up the dairy issue. But that's ignored for the preferred narrative of "maniac Trump wants to tear up NAFTA"
      I can't stop the world from turning around, or the pull of the moon on the tide...
      But I don't believe that we're in this alone, I believe we're along for the ride..
      - Dream Theater

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    7. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      Funny, isn't it? I remember him making this specific point some time ago in relation to NAFTA - he specifically brought up the dairy issue. But that's ignored for the preferred narrative of "maniac Trump wants to tear up NAFTA"
      Donald said that he wants to end NAFTA. Of course how one sees that is a matter of political and economic point of view. He can end it if he wants to. Let's see if he does. I wonder if USA milk producers are keen to sell to Canada and if they did are they subsidised by the USA government? It is a matter that we might be able to examine by judicious searches.

      In 2009, the federal government spent $12.3 billion in payments to America's farmers. The number was cause for celebration, and not only among the tractor and overall industries. $12.3 billion was nearly the lowest payment in the past decade, as high food prices surpassed the threshold for subsidies.

      By and large, most subsidies function as a form of so-called "farm income stabilization." The Department of Agriculture sets a price floor for a given crop. If market prices rise above that level, farms sell on the open market. If prices fall below, the government reimburses farmers the difference between the market and the floor price for every unit grown -- or not.

      Even as farmers profit from increased demand, the government remains a major player in the food business. While assessments of the subsidies' quality varies -- with many commentators labeling them indigestible -- attempts to cut have thus far been unsuccessful.

      So what is the Department of Agriculture putting on your plate? We present the top nine products that the government most heavily subsidizes. (source)

      Among the subsidised agricultural products is milk.

      MILK

      Total Subsidies (1995-2010): $4.9 billion

      % Change in Annual Subsidies (1995-2010): 1.5%

      Biggest Producers: Dean Foods, Dairy Farmers of America

      Milk is one of the most popular products in the United States. The average citizen consumes 3/4 cups a day. It's also one of the most populist. The so-called "price of a gallon of milk" test is a common method on which to judge politicians. (Rudy Giuliani's inability to pass presaged problems for his presidential campaign).

      So it's no surprise that governments have frequently attempted to lower milk prices. (The one exception -- Richard Nixon -- took campaign contributions from dairymen in exchange for higher prices). Still, there may be signs that the regime could be coming to an end. In 2009, the WTO criticized the American subsidies, labeling them violations of the world body's rules. (Wikimedia Commons)



      Perhaps Canada has a tariff on milk to equalise prices after taking into account the USA subsidy.

      OTTAWA, Feb. 1, 2012 /CNW/ - A new website launched by Canada's dairy industry takes the bull by the horns when it comes to setting the record straight on the country's supply management system for milk.

      Dairy Farmers of Canada (DFC) has created the site yourmilk.ca in an effort to dispel misinformed myths about Canada's dairy industry and its successful supply management system, which has delivered Canadians a reliable supply of top-quality dairy products for 40 years.

      "Canadian dairy farmers don't receive any government subsidies and earn their income entirely from the marketplace," said Wally Smith, DFC President. "Consumers in other places where the dairy industry is subsidized, like the United States and the European Union, pay twice for their dairy products once at the store and one more time through their taxes." (source)

      A little research can be helpful. Perhaps you'd like to check more facts and see what lies behind the claims made recently by politicians. Trusting politicians to give an accurate account of the facts is usually a mistake.

      • Myth: Supply management stops Canada from signing free trade agreements.

        Reality: Supply management hasn't stood in the way of Canada's ability to successfully negotiate trade agreements. Since 1986, Canada has concluded NAFTA and bilateral agreements with Jordan, Colombia, Peru, Costa Rica, Chile, Israel and EFTA (Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein).

      • Myth: Only Canada manages imports of dairy products.

        Reality: Supply management does not close doors to imports. The EU, with heavily subsidized dairy products, exports to Canada 10 times what it imports, even though it has more than 500 million consumers.

      • Myth: Canadian dairy farmers are subsidized by taxpayers.

        Reality: Canadian dairy farmers receive no government subsidies for milk. American governments spent $4 billion in subsidies for dairy farmers in 2009, or about 31 cents per litre, and European dairy farmers receive 55 billion Euros in subsidies per year.
      Last edited by MoreCoffee; 06-21-2018 at 08:05 AM.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    8. #17
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      One more point discovered in a search is this:
      Canadian farmers point out that despite the tariffs that protect them, imports make up 10% of the country’s dairy consumption. By contrast, the US restricts dairy imports to 3% of domestic consumption. “That just screams hypocrisy to me,” Muirhead said. “I don’t understand how they can get away with these positions.” (Source)
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

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