About that "tariff" thing...

[ImaginaryDay2]

Saputo urges end to milk ingredients pricing system opposed by U.S.

"Canada matches dairy production to domestic consumption, yielding less than 10 per cent of the market to imports. Above quotas, imported dairy faces tariffs of up to 314 per cent."

But, you know Trump. He's crazy and has no idea what he's talking about with trade between U.S. and Canada

Btw... 'Saputo' is a Canadian corporation.

[jsimms435]

I have mixed feelings about the tariff thing. On the one hand, I can see Trump's point on some of this. China and other countries have had tariff's on American goods for many years and America has done nothing about it. When we try to do the same thing, China gets all upset. But, it hasn't ever been fair trade for as long as i have been alive. China has always had tariff's and unfair trade practices. Now, when someone comes along and treats them the same they start to complain.
I am not sure about Canada or Mexico though or even what our trade deficient is with them. But, it seems that America's trade deficit with almost everyone is huge.

[psalms 91]

I am not versed on this well enough to know but at the time I do know that NAFTA was a horrible deal for the USA and that there is a lot of trade imbalance with many countries

[MoreCoffee]

I have mixed feelings about the tariff thing. On the one hand, I can see Trump's point on some of this. China and other countries have had tariff's on American goods for many years and America has done nothing about it. When we try to do the same thing, China gets all upset. But, it hasn't ever been fair trade for as long as i have been alive. China has always had tariff's and unfair trade practices. Now, when someone comes along and treats them the same they start to complain.
I am not sure about Canada or Mexico though or even what our trade deficient is with them. But, it seems that America's trade deficit with almost everyone is huge.

Well, the USA has quotas on Australian beef, pork, lamb, dairy, cane sugar, and many agricultural products and the USA subsidises many of its farmers to grow (or not grow) various crops. If a level playing field is the goal then subsidies need to go as well as tariffs.

[jsimms435]

Well, the USA has quotas on Australian beef, pork, lamb, dairy, cane sugar, and many agricultural products and the USA subsidises many of its farmers to grow (or not grow) various crops. If a level playing field is the goal then subsidies need to go as well as tariffs.

that isn't going to happen. It would be political suicide

[ImaginaryDay2]

I have mixed feelings about the tariff thing. On the one hand, I can see Trump's point on some of this. China and other countries have had tariff's on American goods for many years and America has done nothing about it. When we try to do the same thing, China gets all upset. But, it hasn't ever been fair trade for as long as i have been alive. China has always had tariff's and unfair trade practices. Now, when someone comes along and treats them the same they start to complain.
I am not sure about Canada or Mexico though or even what our trade deficient is with them. But, it seems that America's trade deficit with almost everyone is huge.

One of the things that Pres. Trump did do was to implement tariffs on softwood lumber coming from B.C. Because it was 'local' news for me, it was not received well. Whether the exports (to the U.S.) were disproportionate or not, I never looked into, but it could well be that Canada did have an unfair advantage.

I guess I'd seen what happened with the automotive bail-out in Michigan when I lived there. The city where I lived had two major truck production plants - heavy-duty and pick-up truck production - that were closed down. That production is now in Canada. It decimated that city when so many lost jobs and moved out. The site where one of the plants stood is now an open field. So I can see both sides of this, I guess, and each wants to protect their interest. And just because Trump has a lot of bluster doesn't necessarily mean (to me) that he's wrong about some of the trade issues - especially if a Canadian corporation is willing to go rogue and call for equitable trade in their sector.

[MoreCoffee]

that isn't going to happen. It would be political suicide

Exactly, so much of Donald's rhetoric is empty posturing. He does not intend to end subsidies and it is subsidies in Chinese industry that USA companies complain about most loudly and that Donald is playing to. If China offers tax benefits to companies that make things for export what of it, the USA offers tax benefits for motor car makers who start a new plant in a state that wants it. There are subsidies and tax incentives all over the place. China probably taxes its companies at a higher rate than the USA so I guess the Chinese government could say "You give tax incentives to your companies that are unfair to our companies which must pay higher taxes and we have no intention of lowering our taxes simply because you do." so one can twist the facts to suit an argument when it seems good for getting more votes - the Chinese government doesn't worry too much about votes but they do worry about keeping their people relatively happy and prosperous.

[ImaginaryDay2]

Well, the USA has quotas on Australian beef, pork, lamb, dairy, cane sugar, and many agricultural products and the USA subsidises many of its farmers to grow (or not grow) various crops. If a level playing field is the goal then subsidies need to go as well as tariffs.

I don't disagree. However, many of those subsidies were amendments written into bills during the Obama administration by Democrats looking to protect their home interests. Many times, the amendments had nothing to do with the bill they were attached to. And such was the spending during that administration that Republicans insisted had to be curbed. And Republicans were chided mercilessly for that.

[ImaginaryDay2]

Subsidies are not a TRUMP issue. Please stop with the Trump bashing. It's unbecoming

[MoreCoffee]

One of the things that Pres. Trump did do was to implement tariffs on softwood lumber coming from B.C. Because it was 'local' news for me, it was not received well. Whether the exports (to the U.S.) were disproportionate or not, I never looked into, but it could well be that Canada did have an unfair advantage.

Canada probably has an advantage in having more trees! And more fresh water, and more forested land. The USA can never match the natural resources that the rest of the world has by virtue of their position and population. China has more people so it has cheaper labour, Canada has more undeveloped land so cheaper access to resources on and under that land. Australia has more Uranium, Natural gas, and Iron ore than most other places in the world. Russia has more oil and gas, Venezuela has more oil reserves than anyplace. In the end trade is intended to redistribute resources either natural or human labour produced. The USA is never going to have more people than India and China, not in our life times anyway. And that means that India and China will very likely be able to manufacture things more cheaply than the USA - even robots to do the manufacturing! - so there's no way to make the USA great again if that phrase means restoring old industries that are no longer competitive when based in the USA.

I guess I'd seen what happened with the automotive bail-out in Michigan when I lived there. The city where I lived had two major truck production plants - heavy-duty and pick-up truck production - that were closed down. That production is now in Canada. It decimated that city when so many lost jobs and moved out. The site where one of the plants stood is now an open field. So I can see both sides of this, I guess, and each wants to protect their interest. And just because Trump has a lot of bluster doesn't necessarily mean (to me) that he's wrong about some of the trade issues - especially if a Canadian corporation is willing to go rogue and call for equitable trade in their sector.

Bail outs are government subsidies too, so what is the sin if China bails out its factories when the USA bailed out its factories too? It is all huff and puff and the only people who are likely to suffer are the poor working people who will be thrown out of work or have reduced living standards because of a trade war.