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    Christian Theology - Thread: This generation ...

    1. #11
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      The more I read scripture instead of commentaries, the more I lean towards Amillenialism. Jesus was speaking of that generation and the great tribulation happened in 70 AD when Jerusalem and everything related to the Old Covenant was ruthlessly destroyed. We are living in the period of Jesus sitting on his throne and the Kingdom of God spreading and triumphing over Satan.
      I don't find the pretorist view tenable. If that was the case, why would John write Revelation 30-50 years after the fall of Jerusalem.

    2. #12
      atpollard is offline Prodigy Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      I don't find the pretorist view tenable. If that was the case, why would John write Revelation 30-50 years after the fall of Jerusalem.
      And EXCEPT for Revelation, the rest of the NT speaks of a “last day” where Jesus returns, the dead in Christ are snatched into the sky and the wicked are judged. How many “last day” (not days) can there be? How many times do you really expect Jesus to return?

      I hate Escatology and don’t have the sort of confident “It will happen like THIS” that some people do, but the other views have just as many problems that tend to get glossed over with pretty charts and guesses about what visions mean for sure.

      Rev 30 is about AFTER Christ’s second return.

    3. #13
      MoreCoffee's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      The more I read scripture instead of commentaries, the more I lean towards Amillenialism. Jesus was speaking of that generation and the great tribulation happened in 70 AD when Jerusalem and everything related to the Old Covenant was ruthlessly destroyed. We are living in the period of Jesus sitting on his throne and the Kingdom of God spreading and triumphing over Satan.
      Long ago I read a book called Amillennialism Today by William E Cox. Have you come across it?
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    4. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      And EXCEPT for Revelation, the rest of the NT speaks of a “last day” where Jesus returns, the dead in Christ are snatched into the sky and the wicked are judged. How many “last day” (not days) can there be? How many times do you really expect Jesus to return?

      I hate Escatology and don’t have the sort of confident “It will happen like THIS” that some people do, but the other views have just as many problems that tend to get glossed over with pretty charts and guesses about what visions mean for sure.

      Rev 30 is about AFTER Christ’s second return.
      Rev 30? what chapter are you referring to?

    5. #15
      atpollard is offline Prodigy Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Long ago I read a book called Amillennialism Today by William E Cox. Have you come across it?
      No, but I really don’t like to spend too much time wrestling with the ‘end times’. The logical part of my mind can’t shake the odds that I will likely be dead before Jesus returns (like the 98 generations before us), so whatever happens, I’ll see it when he comes and the dead in Christ rise first.

      Mostly I follow discussions and read the verses quoted in context for myself.

    6. #16
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      And EXCEPT for Revelation, the rest of the NT speaks of a “last day” where Jesus returns, the dead in Christ are snatched into the sky and the wicked are judged. How many “last day” (not days) can there be? How many times do you really expect Jesus to return?

      I hate Escatology and don’t have the sort of confident “It will happen like THIS” that some people do, but the other views have just as many problems that tend to get glossed over with pretty charts and guesses about what visions mean for sure.

      Rev 30 is about AFTER Christ’s second return.
      I expect him to return when all who are written in the book of life have been adopted. Our task is to be ambassadors so that all might hear the message of reconciliation and the elect might be made alive in Christ. It is this reason that mission is so important to the Reformed.

    7. #17
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      Quote Originally Posted by atpollard View Post
      No, but I really don’t like to spend too much time wrestling with the ‘end times’. The logical part of my mind can’t shake the odds that I will likely be dead before Jesus returns (like the 98 generations before us), so whatever happens, I’ll see it when he comes and the dead in Christ rise first.

      Mostly I follow discussions and read the verses quoted in context for myself.
      I agree, and end times has not been a feature of my Christian faith. I occasionally see a tract or a post or something on the topic and that can pique my interest for an hour or so but for the most part life has way too many real concerns that do need time and effort so wasting time on the latest theory about who is what beast in the Apocalypse is at the very most a very low priority matter.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    8. Likes atpollard, MennoSota liked this post
    9. #18
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      This generation ...

      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Jesus said Matthew 24:32 And from the fig tree learn a parable: When the branch thereof is now tender, and the leaves come forth, you know that summer is nigh. 33 So you also, when you shall see all these things, know ye that it is nigh, even at the doors. 34 Amen I say to you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass, but my words shall not pass.

      To which generation do you think the Lord referred? Was it the generation to whom he spoke? Our own generation? Some other generation either past or future? And how long does a generation last?

      PS: I remember once, a long time ago, seeing this diagram in a little blue book from the Watchtower It made me wonder what people think about Jesus' words.
      I believe He was referring to the generation that would experience these things.
      What is the ‘ir’ that occurs and when does it occur?
      Answer those questions and you have your answer.

      ‘These things’ is a reference to what Jesus spoke about in previous verses concerning the end time and His second coming.



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      Last edited by RichWh1; 06-22-2018 at 01:04 PM.
      "Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ Romans 5:1

    10. #19
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichWh1 View Post
      I believe He was referring to the generation that would experience these things.
      What is the ‘ir’ that occurs and when does it occur?
      Answer those questions and you have your answer.

      ‘These things’ is a reference to what Jesus spoke about in previous verses concerning the end time and His second coming.



      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      The context is worth reading. I have quoted the chapter (Matthew 24) below. I was a little unsure of your intended meaning in the statement What is the ‘ir’ that occurs and when does it occur? my best guess was that the 'ir' was a typo and should be read as 'it' but you can tell me if that is right.

      Matthew 24: 1 Jesus left the temple, and as he was walking away, his disciples came to him and pointed out to him the imposing temple buildings. 2 But he said, “You see all this? Truly I say to you: not one stone will be left upon another here. All will be torn down.”

      3 Later when Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately and asked, “Tell us, when this will take place. What sign will be given us of your coming, and the end of the world?”

      4 Jesus answered, “Be on your guard; and let no one mislead you. 5 Many will come in my name, saying: ‘I am the Messiah,’ and they will mislead many people. 6 You will hear about wars, and rumors of wars; but do not be troubled, for these things must happen; but the end is still to come. 7 Nations will fight one another, and kingdoms oppose one another. There will be famine, and earthquakes in different places; 8 but all this is only the beginning, the first pains of childbirth.

      9 Then, they will arrest you; they will torture and kill you. All nations will hate you, for you bear my name. 10 In those days, many will be led into sin; they will betray and hate one another. 11 False prophets will appear and mislead many; 12 and because of such great wickedness, love in many people will grow cold. 13 But the one who holds out to the end will be saved. 14 The Good News of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world, to all the nations, a Testament to all peoples. Then will the end come.

      15 When you see what the prophet Daniel spoke about, the idol of the invader, set up in the temple (let the reader understand!), 16 then, let those in Judea flee to the mountains.

      17 If you are on the housetop, do not come down to take anything with you. 18 If you are in the field, do not turn back to fetch your coat. 19 How hard it will be for pregnant women, and for mothers with babies at the breast! 20 Pray, that you don’t have to flee in winter, or on a Sabbath; 21 for there will be great tribulation, such as was never known, from the beginning of the world until now, and is never to be known again. 22 And if that time were not to be shortened, no one would survive. But God will shorten those days, for the sake of his chosen ones. 23 Then, if anyone says to you, ‘Look! The Messiah is here! He is there!’, do not believe it. 24 For false Messiahs and false prophets will appear, and perform signs and wonders so great, that they would deceive even God’s chosen people, if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you everything ahead of time.

      26 So, if anyone tells you, ‘He is in the desert,’ do not go. If they say, ‘He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For the coming of the Son of Man will be like lightning, which flashes from the east even to the west. 28 Wherever the body is, the vultures will gather.

      29 And later, after that distress, the sun will grow dark, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the skies, and the whole universe will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven. As all the nations of the earth beat their breasts, they will see the Son of Man coming, in the clouds of heaven, with divine power and great glory. 31 He will send his angels to sound the trumpet; and they will gather his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the earth to the other.

      32 Learn a lesson from the fig tree: when its branches grow tender and its leaves begin to sprout, you know that summer is near. 33 In the same way, when you see all these things, know that the time is near, even at the door. 34 Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

      36 But, as for that Day and that Hour, no one knows when it will come, not even the angels of God, nor the Son, but only the Father.

      37 At the coming of the Son of Man, it will be just as it was in the time of Noah. 38 In those days before the Flood, people were eating and drinking, and marrying, until that day when Noah went into the ark. 39 Yet, they did not know what would happen, until the flood came and swept them away. So will it be, at the coming of the Son of Man: 40 of two men in the field, one will be taken and the other left; 41 of two women grinding wheat together at the mill, one will be taken and the other left.

      42 Stay awake then, for you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 Obviously, if the owner of the house knew at what time the thief was coming, he would certainly stay up and not allow his house to be broken into. 44 So be alert, for the Son of Man will come at the hour you least expect.

      45 Imagine a faithful and prudent servant, whom his master has put in charge of his household, to give them food at the proper time. 46 Fortunate, indeed, is that servant, whom his master will find at work when he comes. 47 Truly I say to you, his lord will entrust him with everything he has.

      48 Not so with the bad servant, who thinks, ‘My master is delayed.’ 49 And he begins to ill-treat his fellow servants, while eating and drinking with drunkards. 50 But his master will come on the day he does not know, and at the hour he least expects. 51 He will punish that servant severely; and place him with the hypocrites. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
      Last edited by MoreCoffee; 07-01-2018 at 04:38 PM.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    11. #20
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      The passage in Matthew 24 is relating to the Second Coming of Jesus, which will occur in the last days.




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      "Therefore, having been justified by faith, [a]we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ Romans 5:1

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