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  • Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
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    Christian Discussion - No Debate - Thread: (No Debate) What things would make you leave your church?

    1. #31
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      For me, that question means "What things would make me leave the Body of Christ?" And the answer to that of course no worldly thing ever...

      And IF the particular congregation in which I worship were to do bad things or teach false doctrines, I would lay down my life for its correction... Were it to be, say, taken over by a bunch of Satanists who were conducting Satanic services in it, I would burn the building to the ground...

      With the Church understood as the Hospital for Sinners, things can get pretty tough in the struggle to prove the Faith of Christ in our own bodies...

      However, most struggles are hidden in Christ...

      And that struggle only comes to light in Confession...

      Arsenios
      You would make sure the people were out of there before you burned it?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    2. #32
      Cassia's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
      Their reasoning was to wrench Job 22:28 out of context and stand on the promise that God never made. I think two words that summed up much of what that church was about would be "cognitive dissonance".

      As you say if it isn't God's will then we can declare whatever we want and it does nothing.
      I think that’s called dynamic transcendency

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynami...al_equivalence

      Formal equivalence is often more goal than reality, if only because one language may contain a word for a concept which has no direct equivalent in another language. In such cases, a more dynamic translation may be used or a neologism may be created in the target language to represent the concept (sometimes by borrowing a word from the source language). etc ... sounds sketchy to me
      Last edited by Cassia; 06-13-2018 at 06:25 PM.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Paul is misinterpreted by those into the letter of the law
      and correctly interpreted by those into the spirit of the law.
      ~~~~~

    3. #33
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cassia View Post
      I think that’s called dynamic transcendency

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynami...al_equivalence

      Formal equivalence is often more goal than reality, if only because one language may contain a word for a concept which has no direct equivalent in another language. In such cases, a more dynamic translation may be used or a neologism may be created in the target language to represent the concept (sometimes by borrowing a word from the source language). etc ... sounds sketchy to me
      With this particular verse the problem is the context. God never spoke those words at all - they were spoken to Job by his "friend" Eliphaz and in Job 42:7 God makes it very clear he is displeased with Eliphaz. So to stand on the verse as if it were a promise made by God is doubly absurd - firstly the promise wasn't made to us and secondly God not only didn't make it but reprimanded the one who did.

      Cognitive dissonance relates to holding conflicting thoughts at the same time without seeing any conflict. Like, for example, the person at the church I left who boldly declared he was healed (present tense) but still went to see his doctor regularly thereby demonstrating he was not healed. I don't visit a heart specialist because I don't have anything wrong with my heart. If I had something wrong with my heart I'd be seeing a heart specialist. To claim my heart is just fine while seeing a specialist who mends hearts is absurd.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    4. #34
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      i dont attend church currently but if they said something like "if you listen to non-Christian music or watch R rated movies you arent really a true Christian" I would be so gone..thats one of my pet peeves I guess.

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    6. #35
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      Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
      With this particular verse the problem is the context. God never spoke those words at all - they were spoken to Job by his "friend" Eliphaz and in Job 42:7 God makes it very clear he is displeased with Eliphaz. So to stand on the verse as if it were a promise made by God is doubly absurd - firstly the promise wasn't made to us and secondly God not only didn't make it but reprimanded the one who did.

      Cognitive dissonance relates to holding conflicting thoughts at the same time without seeing any conflict. Like, for example, the person at the church I left who boldly declared he was healed (present tense) but still went to see his doctor regularly thereby demonstrating he was not healed. I don't visit a heart specialist because I don't have anything wrong with my heart. If I had something wrong with my heart I'd be seeing a heart specialist. To claim my heart is just fine while seeing a specialist who mends hearts is absurd.
      Jobs friends portrayed different sets of legalistic thinking and like parts of Psalms include scripture portraying the law but also words of grace that has both mankind's thoughts and God's thoughts that need to be separated one from the other, bone and marrow type of thing. I think that cognitive dissonance as you have described in the above post is, in fact, holding law and grace 's conflicting thoughts w/o seeing any conflict. It sounds circular reasoning and generally is.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Paul is misinterpreted by those into the letter of the law
      and correctly interpreted by those into the spirit of the law.
      ~~~~~

    7. #36
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      Jus to add a bit more info...
      Excerpt from dynamic Transcendency ~ Paul D. Hanson ~ the correlation of confessional heritage and contemporary experience in a biblical model of divine activity.
      The religiosity expressed by Job’s ‘friends ‘ in their efforts to bring him back into conformity with established teachings consisted of words drawn from the past and repeated without critical reflection or integration with contemporary life, words subservient to an ‘airtight’ theological system of retribution, words closed to any new human experience or encounter with the divine which challenged the Golden Age of Yore. Such is the inevitable fate of any religion which quarantines it’s ancient past as the only age within which revelation of divine nature or will occurred, and which lives in the present by means of repetition and imitation unaffected by the spirit of exploration or anticipation.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Paul is misinterpreted by those into the letter of the law
      and correctly interpreted by those into the spirit of the law.
      ~~~~~

    8. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cassia View Post
      Jobs friends portrayed different sets of legalistic thinking and like parts of Psalms include scripture portraying the law but also words of grace that has both mankind's thoughts and God's thoughts that need to be separated one from the other, bone and marrow type of thing. I think that cognitive dissonance as you have described in the above post is, in fact, holding law and grace 's conflicting thoughts w/o seeing any conflict. It sounds circular reasoning and generally is.
      Be careful. With this distinction between law and Gospel you're sounding more Lutheran everyday!

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    10. #38
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      Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
      Be careful. With this distinction between law and Gospel you're sounding more Lutheran everyday!
      Not everything biblically sound is Lutheran or (insert other religion here) The formulation for the model of dynamic transcendency is from detailed exegesis. The bible regarding revelation while acknowledging it's diversity brings confessional heritage into dialog with recent discoveries of theological developments. The challenge is to "encounter the living God within the tension between a Vision of the Kingdom and the realities of the age."
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Paul is misinterpreted by those into the letter of the law
      and correctly interpreted by those into the spirit of the law.
      ~~~~~

    11. Likes Tigger, psalms 91 liked this post

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