Common Figure of Speech?

Albion · Apr 21, 2022

rstrats said:
You're absolutely correct. Unfortunately I allowed myself to get drawn off topic by replying to your off topic comment in post #91. The only issue of this topic concerns the commonality of forecasting or saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

It has been said and explained before. The way the counting was done then is not the way we do it today; and that's all there is to this.

rstrats · Apr 22, 2022

Albion said:
It has been said and explained before. The way the counting was done then is not the way we do it today; and that's all there is to this.

That's an issue for a different topic.

Albion · Apr 22, 2022

rstrats said:
That's an issue for a different topic.

It's the answer to this controversy.

Stravinsk · Apr 22, 2022

Albion said:
It has been said and explained before. The way the counting was done then is not the way we do it today; and that's all there is to this.

A child of just a few years could have 3 apples and 3 oranges set before them, and correctly say "there are 3 apples and 3 oranges"

If one of the apples was split in half and that half removed, they could say, "There are 2 and a half apples and 3 oranges".

Believers applying "special math" to Christ's clear and unambiguous message of "3 days and 3 nights" seems an apt example of the "special wisdom" that men imagine propels them into the kingdom ahead of the child with apples and oranges relying on simple truths.

Lees · Apr 23, 2022

Stravinsk said:
A child of just a few years could have 3 apples and 3 oranges set before them, and correctly say "there are 3 apples and 3 oranges"

If one of the apples was split in half and that half removed, they could say, "There are 2 and a half apples and 3 oranges".

Believers applying "special math" to Christ's clear and unambiguous message of "3 days and 3 nights" seems an apt example of the "special wisdom" that men imagine propels them into the kingdom ahead of the child with apples and oranges relying on simple truths.

Believers don't need 'special math'. (Matt. 12:40) "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Indeed Christ's statement is clear. He was three days and nights in the heart of the earth. Just as Jonah was in the whale's belly. And that is what believers believe.

Lees

MoreCoffee · Apr 23, 2022

rstrats said:
MoreCoffee,
re: "Don't the vast majority of Christians believe that the Lord, Jesus Christ, was crucified, died, and was buried on Good Friday..."

I think that the majority do. However, it doesn't seem that any of them look in on this topic - at least none who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the moment when the Messiah's spirit left His body, and who try to reconcile the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing a common figure of speech of the time.

This matter was never a point of contention in my circles. "Three days and three nights in the heart of the earth", seems to be a cause of concern for some people. Some propose a Wednesday crucifixion with a Saturday resurrection. But that's a theory to which only a few subscribe. But you're an atheist according to your profile so can it really matter very much to you? I can understand it might be an interesting idle for one's mind but does it really matter?

Also I'm curious to know, Do you believe the story of Jonah is history, myth, a fiction, or some other thing because it appears to be the source for the idea of a three day in the heart of the earth experience?

Matthew 12:40 Just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Jonah 2:1 But YHWH sent a large fish, that swallowed Jonah; and he remained in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Stravinsk · Apr 23, 2022

Lees said:
Believers don't need 'special math'. (Matt. 12:40) "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Indeed Christ's statement is clear. He was three days and nights in the heart of the earth. Just as Jonah was in the whale's belly. And that is what believers believe.

Lees

Please educate us how from the time of Christ's burial on Friday evening until Sunday "while it was still dark" (John 20:1-2) you manage to count 3 days and 3 nights.

Friday night (1 night)
Saturday day (1 night 1 day)
Saturday night or Sunday "while still dark" (2 nights (at best), 1 day)

Yes, "special math" is needed.

rstrats · Apr 23, 2022

Albion said:
The way the counting was done then is not the way we do it today; and that's all there is to this.

And that is an issue for different topic. Maybe you might start one.

rstrats · Apr 23, 2022

MoreCoffee said:
This matter was never a point of contention in my circles.

Are you a believer in a 6th day of the week crucifixion?

MoreCoffee said:
But you're an atheist according to your profile so can it really matter very much to you? I can understand it might be an interesting idle for one's mind but does it really matter?

It's just something about which I'm curious - an idle for my mind. To others it might matter.

MoreCoffee said:
Also I'm curious to know, Do you believe the story of Jonah is history, myth, a fiction, or some other thing ...

I have no belief one way or the other with regard to the reality of the story.

Albion · Apr 23, 2022

rstrats said:
And that is an issue for different topic. Maybe you might start one.

You already started it with this one (in case you've forgotten the OP)--

1. The Messiah said that He would be three days and three nights in the "heart of the earth"
2. There are those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with the resurrection taking place on the 1st day of the week.
3. Of those, there are some who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb.
4. A 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection allows for only 2 nights to be involved.
5. To account for the lack of a 3rd night, some of those mentioned above say that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language.

rstrats · Apr 23, 2022

Albion said:
You already started it with this one (in case you've forgotten the OP)--

You left out #6 which is the gist of the OP - examples to show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

Albion · Apr 23, 2022

rstrats said:
You left out #6 which is the gist of the OP - examples to show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

The other five are sufficient to show that ten subsequent posts from you saying that the topic is not part of this discussion are in error.

Lees · Apr 23, 2022

Stravinsk said:
Please educate us how from the time of Christ's burial on Friday evening until Sunday "while it was still dark" (John 20:1-2) you manage to count 3 days and 3 nights.

Friday night (1 night)
Saturday day (1 night 1 day)
Saturday night or Sunday "while still dark" (2 nights (at best), 1 day)

Yes, "special math" is needed.

I just did 'educate' you. (Matt. 12:40). Jesus is clear. Three days and three nights in the heart of the earth just like Jonah was three days and nights in the belly of the whale.

Special math is needed for you...not me. You need your 'special math' for your unbelief. I don't need it at all. I believe what Jesus said.

Lees

rstrats · Apr 23, 2022

Albion said:
The other five are sufficient to show that ten subsequent posts from you saying that the topic is not part of this discussion are in error.

For the purpose of this topic the other five were not intended for discussion. They are simply outlining the requirements for those to whom this topic is intended. If you wish to discuss them you can start a new topic.

Lees · Apr 23, 2022

rstrats said:
For the purpose of this topic the other five were not intended for discussion. They are simply outlining the requirements for those to whom this topic is intended. If you wish to discuss them you can start a new topic.

For the purpose of this topic please respond to my post #(100) which is directed to you.

Lees

rstrats · Apr 23, 2022

Lees said:
please respond to my post #(100) which is directed to you.

Lees

Sorry, I thought I had responded.

re: "Why are examples needed?"

Because if someone says that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur they would have to know of examples to legitimately make that assertion.

re: "So, I ask you. Was Jonah in the belly of a whale three days and [three] nights?

Scripture says that he was.

Stravinsk · Apr 23, 2022

Lees said:
I just did 'educate' you. (Matt. 12:40). Jesus is clear. Three days and three nights in the heart of the earth just like Jonah was three days and nights in the belly of the whale.

Special math is needed for you...not me. You need your 'special math' for your unbelief. I don't need it at all. I believe what Jesus said.

Lees

So, since in post #107 I clearly showed how many nights and day(s) there are between Friday evening and Sunday "before dark" am I to come to the conclusion that you disbelieve the Friday crucifixion, Sunday resurrection timeline and have another?

C'mon. Tell the world you cannot count and that you believe a savior who cannot count. Or show us the alternative.

Lees · Apr 23, 2022

rstrats said:
Sorry, I thought I had responded.

re: "Why are examples needed?"

Because if someone says that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur they would have to know of examples to legitimately make that assertion.

re: "So, I ask you. Was Jonah in the belly of a whale three days and [three] nights?

Scripture says that he was.

That is no need for 'examples' to be given. Examples are for 'your' need. For your 'argument'. So, again, why are examples needed? Do you require 'examples' for Jonah being in the belly of the whale for three days and nights?

Scripture does say that. And Scripture says Jesus was three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matt. 12:40)

So, seems like here is an example of 'three days and nights' being used as a reference. Not that it is needed, but it is an 'example', ....isn't it?

So, do you belive the account of Jonah and the whale?

Lees

Lees · Apr 23, 2022

Stravinsk said:
So, since in post #107 I clearly showed how many nights and day(s) there are between Friday evening and Sunday "before dark" am I to come to the conclusion that you disbelieve the Friday crucifixion, Sunday resurrection timeline and have another?

C'mon. Tell the world you cannot count and that you believe a savior who cannot count. Or show us the alternative.

I have given you the 'other'. (Matt. 12:40) "For as Jonas was three days and nights in the whales belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Go ahead and use your 'special math' for you unbelief. But Scripture is clear. Jesus said three days and three nights. Just like with Jonah.

So, do you have any 'special math' for Jonah?

Lees

Stravinsk · Apr 23, 2022

Lees said:
I have given you the 'other'. (Matt. 12:40) "For as Jonas was three days and nights in the whales belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Go ahead and use your 'special math' for you unbelief. But Scripture is clear. Jesus said three days and three nights. Just like with Jonah.

So, do you have any 'special math' for Jonah?

Lees

It's not me that's using any special math. I can count to 3 and to 6. 3 days + 3 nights = 6 periods of time. One simply does not have that between Friday evening and Sunday while it was still dark. I notice you avoided the question about whether you believe in the Fri-Sunday timeline for Christ's death and resurrection.

Common Figure of Speech?

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