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    1. #21
      Confessional Lutheran's Avatar
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      This is how he confuses people when he says things.


      Last edited by Confessional Lutheran; 05-21-2018 at 06:03 PM.

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Confessional Lutheran View Post
      This is how he confuses people when he says things.


      Deja Vu

      Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

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    4. #23
      Confessional Lutheran's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      Deja Vu

      Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
      Oh, did this appear earlier on in the thread? I'll have to find something more original, then..


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    6. #24
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      ================================================== ============================================

      Tango in Post #5:
      There isn't a single verse in Scripture that says it's a sin to be gay.
      ================================================== ============================================

      1 Corinthians 6:9,10:
      9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
      10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


      And as partially (but well) quoted by RichWh1 (Post #20) Romans 1:24-32 [emphasis added to focus attention]:

      24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of [their] hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves.
      25 For they changed the truth of God into a lie, and they worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
      26 For this cause, God gave them up to dishonorable affections. For even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.
      27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another; males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.
      28 And even as they did not think fit to have God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right,
      29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; [being] full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, [becoming] whisperers,
      30 backbiters, haters of God, insolent, proud, braggarts, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
      31 undiscerning, perfidious, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful;
      32 who, knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but have pleasure in those practicing [them].

      ================================================== ============================================

      The fact that homosexuality (including bisexuality) can be cured (because people have been cured), strongly indicates that homosexuality is a condition of the mind – a condition that people whose minds are in that condition can choose to have correctedor choose not to.

      Any statement that God made those people that way (implying deliberate action) – made them such that they could not inherit the Kingdom of God (His Kingdom) – and then bar them because they are as He made them, seems more than a little questionable, and maybe a shade demeaning. Don’t you think?
      Seeking to understand with precision, God's holy and coherent revelation to us.

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    8. #25
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      The question I asked isn't whether it's a sin. It's whether God created the man like that or not?
      Ps 51
      "For behold!
      I was conceived in iniquity...
      And in sins did my mother bear me..."


      God permits us such an inheritance...
      that we find healing for it in repentance...
      Unto the 7th generation...

      This does not mean that God conceives us in iniquity...
      We do just fine in that enterprise all by ourselves!
      Those who follow Christ seek, at the end of their days...
      To say with Christ: "Behold, I have overcome the world."

      Being overwhelmed with passions is a function of the world.

      Arsenios

    9. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      ================================================== ============================================

      Tango in Post #5:


      ================================================== ============================================

      1 Corinthians 6:9,10:
      9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
      10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


      And as partially (but well) quoted by RichWh1 (Post #20) Romans 1:24-32 [emphasis added to focus attention]:

      24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of [their] hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves.
      25 For they changed the truth of God into a lie, and they worshiped and served the created thing more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
      26 For this cause, God gave them up to dishonorable affections. For even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.
      27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another; males with males working out shamefulness, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was fitting for their error.
      28 And even as they did not think fit to have God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do the things not right,
      29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; [being] full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, [becoming] whisperers,
      30 backbiters, haters of God, insolent, proud, braggarts, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
      31 undiscerning, perfidious, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful;
      32 who, knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but have pleasure in those practicing [them].

      ================================================== ============================================

      The fact that homosexuality (including bisexuality) can be cured (because people have been cured), strongly indicates that homosexuality is a condition of the mind – a condition that people whose minds are in that condition can choose to have correctedor choose not to.

      Any statement that God made those people that way (implying deliberate action) – made them such that they could not inherit the Kingdom of God (His Kingdom) – and then bar them because they are as He made them, seems more than a little questionable, and maybe a shade demeaning. Don’t you think?
      Not sure how I missed this when you posted it - apologies for the delay replying.

      The trouble with words like "gay" and "homosexual" is that they cover a wide range of things. Someone who is attracted to members of their own sex can be described as gay. Someone who lusts after members of their own sex can be described as gay. Someone who has intimate physical relationships with members of their own sex can be described as gay. Hence the difference between (to use Paul's words) "males with males working out shamefulness" and men who are attracted to other men but choose not to act on that attraction. The passage here also nods towards the physical act rather than the desire - v32 talks of the people who "not only do them but have pleasure in those practicing them".

      I think this is also an example of the logical notion that all apples are fruits but not all fruits are apples. People did something, therefore God gave them up to all sorts of things including homosexuality. Does that mean anyone and everyone with homosexual desires must have followed the same path to get there? I would say not necessarily so. If you win a bet with me and I give you the $10 we bet it doesn't logically follow that every other person who gets $10 from me must have won a bet. Maybe they did win a bet, maybe I just gave $10 to a street beggar, or to my friend's child for her birthday, or whatever else. If we observe that A implies B we cannot conclude that B therefore must imply A.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    10. #27
      davedajobauk is offline Apprentice Member
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      I think the Pope is 100% right and it is NOT a sin. The old time Bible is wrong. More and more priests and holy people are thinking like the pope. It's time others start looking at this issue more carefully and stop their condemnation of the LGTBQ! This kind of behavior that the gay have has been going on long before the Bible or Church existed and is normal.

      I wish to leave this site IMMEDIATELY

      May God have mercy on this condonation

      :prayer:
      Last edited by davedajobauk; 06-28-2018 at 12:43 PM.
      Isaiah 40:31
      Ecclesiastes 3

    11. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by davedajobauk View Post
      I wish to leave this site IMMEDIATELY

      May God have mercy on this condonation

      :prayer:
      Huh? What are you talking about?
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    12. #29
      SilkenBast is offline Rookie Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      The question I asked isn't whether it's a sin. It's whether God created the man like that or not?
      Curious question. If one must ask this in all sincerity, then one must also be of a certain disposition regarding their deity. If this is the Hebrew God, who has condemned homosexual acts as depravity and well departed from His ideal, then creating a person with such desires would not only violate the free willed agency of the person, but it would also call into question both the integrity and loving nature (which cannot exclude good will and the ideal(of what is good)) of God.

      My belief is that God intends this for no one. A person's experiences in life, societal influences and choices all play a part. It has nothing to do with God. For the atheist or agnostic, it has nothing to do with Nature either. Sexual intercourse between members of the same sex produces nothing and at least insofar as men are concerned, can have serious health consequences.

    13. #30
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Pope Francis tells gay man: 'God made you like that and loves you like that'

      What do you think of the Pope's comments to the man?
      The pope's remarks are in keeping with current scientific opinion about sexuality. They are pastoral remarks. Why do you worry about it so much? What would you have him say to such a man?
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

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