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  • Page 37 of 101 FirstFirst ... 2735363738394787 ... LastLast
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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: Salvation

    1. #361
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      Quote Originally Posted by RichWh1 View Post
      The Greek language is not dead.
      It’s just the koine dialect that is no longer spoken,
      meaning it is a dead language and needs to be studied in order to be understood properly.
      Demotic Greek is the inheriter of Koine Greek...
      My friend Leonides decries the translation of the Bible into current Athenian Demotic Greek...
      In the Lord's Prayer, for instance, he complains:
      "Give us this day our daily bread..."
      Is now translated as:
      "Give us this day a loaf of bread..."

      I have a friend in Chicago who knows Ekklesiastical Greek, Demotic Greek, Katharovouska Greek, and Koine Greek, [and more if truth be told] as a Reader in his local Greek Orthodox Parish... And he can chant them all in the Services, which almost exclusively are chanted in the 8 Byzantine Tones of the Week in Koine and Ekklesiastical Greek...

      Demotic Greek is simply evolved Koine - Leo would say DEvolved Greek...

      Arsenios

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    3. #362
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      Demotic Greek is the inheriter of Koine Greek...
      My friend Leonides decries the translation of the Bible into current Athenian Demotic Greek...
      In the Lord's Prayer, for instance, he complains:
      "Give us this day our daily bread..."
      Is now translated as:
      "Give us this day a loaf of bread..."

      I have a friend in Chicago who knows Ekklesiastical Greek, Demotic Greek, Katharovouska Greek, and Koine Greek, [and more if truth be told] as a Reader in his local Greek Orthodox Parish... And he can chant them all in the Services, which almost exclusively are chanted in the 8 Byzantine Tones of the Week in Koine and Ekklesiastical Greek...

      Demotic Greek is simply evolved Koine - Leo would say DEvolved Greek...

      Arsenios
      I know a KJV only chap who is sure that English devolved after the KJV.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    4. #363
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      If there is no faith that is alone, then faith alone does not exist...

      Logically you are arguing that something that does not exist is what saves you...

      From the Orthodox point of view, it is not your faith that saves you anyway...

      It is THE Faith which Christ discipled to His Apostles that is Christ's MEANS of bringing to us His Salvation...

      That is why He discipled His Apostles and instructed them to teach us to carefully observe ALL that He had commanded them to be observing... There is no list in the Bible for all these Commandments... But there IS the Ground and the Pillar of the Truth, which IS the Ekklesia of God in Christ on earth... For the last 2000 years and counting... Against which the Gates of Hell shall not prevail...

      The Faith synergizes with one's works, and by the works is the Faith of Christ perfected in the Person following Him...
      That is straight from James 2... Faith is perfected by works - They work together... Works are the means of perfecting the Faith of Christ IN you... The Faith IN which you are being discipled BY the Body of Christ Who IS Her Head... This means that IF you do not DO the works, the Faith will NOT be perfected - It will not mature... The works mature the Faith... Without YOU doing the works, the Faith, the Seed you received from the Sower, is still-born and dead...

      You have to water the soil with your tears... Weed it of worldly cares... Say no to impure desires... And so on...

      The Parable of the Sower is clear - A person must have good soil of himself - Must acquire and cultivate it - A heart that is broken and humbled God will not despise... If you re-read the Parable of the Sower for what it is that the Sower brings, and what the various "soils" DO with that Calling, you will see that what WE bring to the Good Word of God is crucial... The same Grace is received differently by different people according to their preparation... Discipling is all about preparation to receive God's Grace... Make straight the Way of the Lord!

      Faith alone without works will NEVER save you...
      Faith synergizing with works will bring you to God...
      And there, God will GIVE you the GIFT of Salvation...
      The Gift is God Himself in union with you...

      Arsenios
      I enjoy seeing synergism written so often in the face of the advocates of monergism that is proclaimed as "faith alone".
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    5. #364
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      I enjoy seeing synergism written so often in the face of the advocates of monergism that is proclaimed as "faith alone".
      You do seem to have a penchant for such un-healthy enjoyments...

      The word in James is SYNERGIZES...

      Faith and works SYNERGIZE...

      BY works is Faith matured/perfected...

      Plain James 2...

      Sigh.......

      Arsenios

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    7. #365
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      You do seem to have a penchant for such un-healthy enjoyments...

      The word in James is SYNERGIZES...

      Faith and works SYNERGIZE...

      BY works is Faith matured/perfected...

      Plain James 2...

      Sigh.......

      Arsenios
      Nevertheless the linguistic irony makes me chuckle a little.

      Lord have mercy.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    8. #366
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Nevertheless the linguistic irony makes me chuckle a little.
      Lord have mercy.
      Indeed!

      To say that a man's own doings have nothing to do with Salvation is patently false...
      Man does just fine of his own doings in sins, and no-one denies this...
      And IF man DOES his own sins, he has the POWER to DO his own sins...
      And IF man has this power to DO sin, then he also has the power to NOT DO sin...
      The power to self direct is a part of man created in the Image of God...
      Directing one's self away from sin is repentance...
      Anyone who is willing can DO self-denial...
      That is why the Gospel records Christ's Holy Words:
      IF anyone will come after Me, let him FIRST deny himself...
      Self denial by the self denying itself is the first step of discipleship...
      The Gospel does not say "IF the ELECT..."
      It says "IF ANYONE..."

      But there is a broader matter here...
      Theology is not a systematic structuring of ideas...
      The Faith Christ has given man is a Mystery...
      It is entered through Discipleship...
      And Discipleship is BY Christ THROUGH His Body, the Ekklesia...
      Indeed the Bible was written BY those Holy Ones so discipled...
      God wrote His Holy Bible using well discipled and Holy Hands...
      Its understanding is for those so discipled...
      For those not so discipled, it will be misunderstood...
      For those so discipled, it can be misunderstood...

      Arsenios

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    10. #367
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      The problem with latter day Protestants is that they do not consider themselves disciples of Christ but instead see themselves as proclaimers of the Gospel, and some even proclaim the Gospel of Election, which is not in the Bible, but all seem to see the Bible as their private self discipling through their understanding of its words...

      And many do not like to have the Great Commission pointed out to them, that Christ commissioned His Apostles to GO to ALL the Nations DISCIPLING them, and that He named the two things needed: Baptism into Christ, and Teaching them to be observing precisely ALL that Christ had COMMANDED them TO BE DOING...

      So they have no keel and rudder by which to navigate the Sea of Holy Writ, which was written to and for those living the Faith in which they are discipled by the Apostolic Faith of Christ... The proof of the Faith of Christ is to be found not in the Bible but in Christ's Apostolic Discipling and the Purity of Heart attained therein... We are discipled to ATTAIN unto that purity of heart that shall see God, and in this, to become one with God and with those who WROTE the Holy Words of Scripture... Apart from this discipleship, we can only guess and prove to our own logical satisfaction what we think we understand from the words of the Book...

      Arsenios

    11. #368
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      The problem with latter day Protestants is that they do not consider themselves disciples of Christ but instead see themselves as proclaimers of the Gospel, and some even proclaim the Gospel of Election, which is not in the Bible, but all seem to see the Bible as their private self discipling through their understanding of its words...
      Where oh where should we start when attempting to correct that collection of stereotypes and errors?

    12. #369
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      The problem with latter day Protestants is that they do not consider themselves disciples of Christ but instead see themselves as proclaimers of the Gospel, and some even proclaim the Gospel of Election, which is not in the Bible, but all seem to see the Bible as their private self discipling through their understanding of its words...

      And many do not like to have the Great Commission pointed out to them, that Christ commissioned His Apostles to GO to ALL the Nations DISCIPLING them, and that He named the two things needed: Baptism into Christ, and Teaching them to be observing precisely ALL that Christ had COMMANDED them TO BE DOING...

      So they have no keel and rudder by which to navigate the Sea of Holy Writ, which was written to and for those living the Faith in which they are discipled by the Apostolic Faith of Christ... The proof of the Faith of Christ is to be found not in the Bible but in Christ's Apostolic Discipling and the Purity of Heart attained therein... We are discipled to ATTAIN unto that purity of heart that shall see God, and in this, to become one with God and with those who WROTE the Holy Words of Scripture... Apart from this discipleship, we can only guess and prove to our own logical satisfaction what we think we understand from the words of the Book...

      Arsenios
      Protestants have their own culture and their own ways of looking at their 66 books of scripture. Each denomination has something of its own. Something that is distinctive to their way of teaching, worshipping, and praying. Most appear to agree on some matters.

      I am happy in the barque of saint Peter.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    13. #370
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      Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
      Where oh where should we start when attempting to correct that collection of stereotypes and errors?
      'Tis a broad brush, no question...

      Luther weaponized the Gospel against what he understood to be the Church...

      In this spawn, how can it be otherwise?

      Arsenios

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