Salvation

Arsenios · Jun 28, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
Mustard seeds don't save people

Maybe not but coffee comes pretty close...

I have heard it whispered in hidden crannies that...

It is possibly the Eighth Sacrament...

Definitely a post-liturgical crutch...

Arsenios

Arsenios · Jun 29, 2018

Albion said:
The following is worth reading:
https://www.hunker.com/13429114/mustard-tree-facts

And what about those camels squeezing their way through the eye of a needle?
Some say it is a narrow mountain pass...
Some a mooring line for large ships...

All of which is to say that believing in God is better than believing in seeds and camels...

Mind you

Arsenios

psalms 91 · Jun 29, 2018

Arsenios said:
And what about those camels squeezing their way through the eye of a needle?
Some say it is a narrow mountain pass...
Some a mooring line for large ships...

All of which is to say that believing in God is better than believing in seeds and camels...

Mind you

Arsenios

If memory serves me right isnt there a gate to enter in that was small and a camel had to get down to get through it?

MoreCoffee · Jun 29, 2018

psalms 91 said:
If memory serves me right isnt there a gate to enter in that was small and a camel had to get down to get through it?

Matthew 19:23 Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I say to you: it will be hard for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Yes, believe me: it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle than for the one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

It looks like the eye of a needle (sewing needle) to me.

First century AD sewing needles

psalms 91 · Jun 29, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
Matthew 19:23 Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I say to you: it will be hard for one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Yes, believe me: it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of the needle than for the one who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven.

It looks like the eye of a needle (sewing needle) to me.

First century AD sewing needles

Not sure but I think there was a gate called the needle or something like that

Arsenios · Jun 29, 2018

psalms 91 said:
Not sure but I think there was a gate called the needle or something like that

It was a mountain pass that was so narrow that the camels had to be unloaded in order to get them through it, and then reloaded on the other side, with all the labor of hand carrying the cargo through the pass and reloading it, which has lovely implications for the meaning of repentance...

But the direct meaning could well be the threading of a heavy dock-line holding a ship to a dock that is meant, for these heavy ropes are called camels, and needles are not designed for them, let alone for the cargos of their ships... For narrow and straited (afflicted and obstructed) is the Way of Salvation, yet apt for fallen man...

Remembering the rich young man whom Christ instructed to sell all that he had and give to the poor that he have riches in heaven, and then take up his cross and follow Him... Getting through the eye of a needle takes a LOT of repentance...

Nice little aside, yes?

Arsenios

MoreCoffee · Jun 29, 2018

psalms 91 said:
Not sure but I think there was a gate called the needle or something like that

I've heard that story but I can find no reliable evidence that in the first century AD any such gate existed in Jerusalem's walls.

Just where is that gate in Jerusalem?
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)
For the last two centuries it has been common teaching in Sunday School that there is a gate in Jerusalem called the eye of the needle through which a camel could not pass unless it stooped and first had all its baggage first removed. After dark, when the main gates were shut, travellers or merchants would have to use this smaller gate, through which the camel could only enter unencumbered and crawling on its knees! Great sermon material, with the parallels of coming to God on our knees without all our baggage. A lovely story and an excellent parable for preaching but unfortunately unfounded! From at least the 15th century, and possibly as early as the 9th but not earlier, this story has been put forth, however, there is no evidence for such a gate, nor record of reprimand of the architect who may have forgotten to make a gate big enough for the camel and rider to pass through unhindered.

Variations on this theme include that of ancient inns having small entrances to thwart thieves, or the story of an old mountain pass known as the "eye of the needle", so narrow that merchants would have to dismount from their camels and were thus easier prey for brigands lying in wait. (source)

Arsenios · Jul 1, 2018

Joh 17:11-12
And now I am no more in the world,
but these are in the world,
and I come to thee.

Holy Father,
keep through thine own name
those whom thou hast given me,
that they may be one, as we are.

While I was with them in the world,
I kept them in thy name:

That they may be one, as we are.

Is this our Salvation in Christ?

How indeed is Christ one with the Father and the Holy Spirit?
How are we to be one with one another that is the same?

Is the Kingdom of Heaven the Giver of Life Eternal?

Joh 17:3
And this is life eternal,
that they might know thee the only true God,
and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So what IS this Biblical KNOWING of God and Jesus that IS Life Eternal?
And HOW is it attained by man?

Arsenios

MoreCoffee · Jul 1, 2018

Arsenios said:
Joh 17:11-12
And now I am no more in the world,
but these are in the world,
and I come to thee.

Holy Father,
keep through thine own name
those whom thou hast given me,
that they may be one, as we are.

While I was with them in the world,
I kept them in thy name:

That they may be one, as we are.

Is this our Salvation in Christ?

How indeed is Christ one with the Father and the Holy Spirit?
How are we to be one with one another that is the same?

Is the Kingdom of Heaven the Giver of Life Eternal?

Joh 17:3
And this is life eternal,
that they might know thee the only true God,
and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

So what IS this Biblical KNOWING of God and Jesus that IS Life Eternal?
And HOW is it attained by man?

Arsenios

It will be interesting to see what answers your questions receive.

RichWh1 · Jul 1, 2018

The word translated know is the word used for intimate knowledge as a husband and wife possess. This is what the Christian has with God, a personal intimate knowledge.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Arsenios · Jul 1, 2018

RichWh1 said:
The word translated know is the word used for intimate knowledge as a husband and wife possess. This is what the Christian has with God, a personal intimate knowledge.

Exactly right -
The Mystery of the Marriage of the Lamb - A relationship far more intimate than marriage...
For the Orthodox, that marriage is consumated at/by Pentecost...
And Pentecost is a profoundly Spiritual event...
Not necessarily a private one...

Arsenios

Arsenios · Jul 1, 2018

MoreCoffee said:
It will be interesting to see what answers your questions receive.

I have encountered Protestants who have encountered God as I did...
Extraordinary folks these...
Not many of them...

I am the only ex-atheist I know who did so apart from the Church...

Arsenios

MennoSota · Jul 2, 2018

Arsenios said:
And HOW is it attained by man?

How does man attain salvation?
Man cannot attain salvation.
Man is helpless and hopeless in his quest to attain salvation. He falls short in any attempt as he drifts toward hell.
God must choose to rescue helpless and hopeless man. His choice for whom He will save is known only to God, but it is experienced and witnessed to by the one who has been given faith to believe.

Arsenios · Jul 2, 2018

MennoSota said:
How does man attain salvation?
Man cannot attain salvation.
Man is helpless and hopeless in his quest to attain salvation. He falls short in any attempt as he drifts toward hell.
God must choose to rescue helpless and hopeless man. His choice for whom He will save is known only to God, but it is experienced and witnessed to by the one who has been given faith to believe.

As it is written in the prophets,
Behold, I send My messenger before thy face,
which shall prepare thy way before thee.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness,
"Prepare ye the way of the Lord.
Make straight His Paths."
John did baptize in the wilderness,
and preach the baptism of repentance
for the remission of sins.

Why was this written in the Gospels?
Does it mean what it actually says?
Are you and I really to be repenting?
Are we to make straight God's Ways?
Are we to repent for the remission of sins?

Or do you have some other account of God's Holy Words here?

Arsenios

MennoSota · Jul 2, 2018

Arsenios said:
As it is written in the prophets,
Behold, I send My messenger before thy face,
which shall prepare thy way before thee.
The voice of one crying in the wilderness,
"Prepare ye the way of the Lord.
Make straight His Paths."
John did baptize in the wilderness,
and preach the baptism of repentance
for the remission of sins.

Why was this written in the Gospels?
Does it mean what it actually says?
Are you and I really to be repenting?
Are we to make straight God's Ways?
Are we to repent for the remission of sins?

Or do you have some other account of God's Holy Words here?

Arsenios

Arsenios, John the Baptist was created to point the people of Israel toward Jesus, the Messiah. We follow Jesus, not John the Baptist. Why do you insist on following John the Baptist and his baptism that does nothing to reconcile you with God?

Arsenios · Jul 2, 2018

MennoSota said:
Arsenios, John the Baptist was created to point the people of Israel toward Jesus, the Messiah. We follow Jesus, not John the Baptist. Why do you insist on following John the Baptist and his baptism that does nothing to reconcile you with God?

John's ministry is the beginning of the Gospel of Jesus Christ...
The Gospel of Jesus Christ begins with repentance unto Salvation...
Why do you pick and choose only the words that you want the Bible to say?
We are Called by God to Repentance...
THEN we are Justified BY God...
THEN we are Glorified BY God...

Plain as day...

You make the Call of God to Repentance of no effect...
Why then is it in all the Gospels?
Why are you avoiding God's Word?

The Gospel of Christ is to be taken from the Gospels...
It is not to be taken from the Pastoral Epistles...
These Epistles address local stumbling blocks...
They are not the Gospels of Christ...
The Gospels are the Gospels of Christ...
The Epistles are not the Gospels...

Arsenios

Arsenios · Jul 2, 2018

MennoSota said:
Arsenios, John the Baptist was created to point the people of Israel toward Jesus, the Messiah. We follow Jesus, not John the Baptist. Why do you insist on following John the Baptist and his baptism that does nothing to reconcile you with God?

The Gospel tells us to make straight the Way of the Lord...
To make level the road to Salvation...
To get ourselves involved in our preparation for God...
"For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!"

Why do you doubt God's word in this?

Arsenios

MennoSota · Jul 2, 2018

Arsenios said:
The Gospel tells us to make straight the Way of the Lord...
To make level the road to Salvation...
To get ourselves involved in our preparation for God...
"For the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!"

Why do you doubt God's word in this?

Arsenios

Why do you live under John the Baptist rather than in the reconciliation provided by Christ alone?

Albion · Jul 2, 2018

Acceptance of the Bible as Gods word. It is not more complicated than that. And it is hardly an either-or proposition (John vs Christ)..

psalms 91 · Jul 2, 2018

That is under Christ, it may have been John the Baptists message but it is also ours as Christ will return and until that time we are charged to carry the gospel to all the world. We can not pick and choose it is all for our edification Old as well as New John the Baptist and Christ.

Salvation

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