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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
    Results 11 to 16 of 16

    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: Salvation

    1. #11
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Believing because of faith is different than the believing that the demons did because there was no saving faith given for the demons...only to humans through Christ. So is believing enough? Absolutely. Is repentance something God does within us? Absolutely, because it includes faith to turn us to Him.
      From what I understand the word believe in the Bible is to put your whole faith and trust in. It isn't the same as an intellectual belief.

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    3. #12
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      Seems we're way off topic but.... to add my half cent....

      Biblically, as I understand it, "pistos" CAN mean to hold to something true and correct but it also can mean to trust, to actively rely upon. IMO, context determines the difference.

      The Devil probably knows a LOT more God than all of us here at CH combined. But does He trust/rely upon Christ as His Savior? IMO, one could have an IQ of 200, have 5 Ph.D.'s, 3 Seminary degrees, and have memorized every word of the Bible from Genesis - Revelation, and not have active trust/reliance in Christ. I know a LOT of people who have no clue how planes fly (or THINK they do but they don't, lol). But they stuff themselves into planes every day - trusting in flight, relying on THIS plane and THIS crew and THIS course. KNOWING and RELYING just aren't the same thing.... and one can exist at the exclusion of the other.

      In Lutheran theology at least, we do make a distinction between cognative affirmation and active reliance. And I think this is appropriate. Personally, I see this in Scripture, too. Lutherans hold that Justification is via Sola Gratia - Solus Christus - Sola Fide, and that last aspect, "fide" is the reliance aspect. We hold that a baby can have the gift of trusting (even though there may be very little to no understanding of that) whereas the dude with 3 Seminary degrees that's memorized the entire Bible may not be trusting/relying at all. Apples and oranges. Even though, I agree, the koine Greek word CAN have both meanings, depending on the context.


      Sorry for the 'off point'



      - Josiah
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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    5. #13
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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      From what I understand the word believe in the Bible is to put your whole faith and trust in. It isn't the same as an intellectual belief.
      I wonder how that fits in with demons believing? James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you think that those demons "put their whole faith and trust in" God being one?
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    6. #14
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      I wonder how that fits in with demons believing? James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you think that those demons "put their whole faith and trust in" God being one?
      To the extent it is fact yes, as a saviour no. Since they exist in the spiritual it is seen and dioes not require faith per se.
      Isaiah 40:31

    7. #15
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      I wonder how that fits in with demons believing? James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you think that those demons "put their whole faith and trust in" God being one?

      See post 12
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

    8. #16
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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      Is it enough to believe and is believing more than saying "yes that is right, I think that is true" and maybe acting on the belief or is there more to belief than that and does it mean living a life marked by holiness and prayer as well as generosity to others, love for others, and especially love for the 'brethren'; is a person saved by what they do as well as what they believe or is the doing greater than the believing or vice versa?
      Using the terminology, etc. of your post, believing is greater than doing. But really, the question is flawed because it presumes that no doing on your behalf or my behalf has been done.

      The truth is that Christ did the doing. This is at the heart of the Gospel. If we had been able to do sufficiently, it would not have been necessary for us to have a Savior. Obviously, we were sent a Savior in order to do what we could not do by ourselves.

      Therefore, insisting that we are to equal or supplement his accomplishment misses one of the most basic truths of the Gospel.

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