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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: Salvation

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    1. #1
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      Salvation

      Salvation is not so easy to define. Some think of it as a kind of transaction where the sinner exercises faith in Jesus Christ and God forgives their sins and saves them. A done deal, all finished at the cross. Some think of salvation is a quest of sorts where the sinner repents and believes the gospel and God shows the way and gives food for the journey and rest and everything needed to complete the journey including medical/spiritual aid and emergency aid too with the final goal being salvation on the last day when Jesus says to the redeemed "well done thou good and faithful servant, enter into my Father's rest". There are variants on both of these views too and a few views that are outside the bounds set in the two mentioned above.

      Is it enough to believe and is believing more than saying "yes that is right, I think that is true" and maybe acting on the belief or is there more to belief than that and does it mean living a life marked by holiness and prayer as well as generosity to others, love for others, and especially love for the 'brethren'; is a person saved by what they do as well as what they believe or is the doing greater than the believing or vice versa?

      This is not intended as a second chapter of the Justification thread.
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

    2. #2
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      Matthew 19:25-26 English Standard Version (ESV)
      When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

      Hebrews 7:25 English Standard Version (ESV)
      Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost[a] those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.


      Acts 4:12
      And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men[c] by which we must be saved.”

      Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV
      For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

      1 John 5:10-13 ESV
      Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

      Titus 3:5 ESV
      He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

      Salvation for us is completely by the triune God's hand, not of us.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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      You ask if it is enough to believe. No, it is not. Salvation is more than intellectual assent. The demons believe and shudder.

      18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?" James 2;18-20

      This is in my opinion one of the problems with the church today. That many people who claim to be believers will intellectually agree that Jesus is the Son of God, but at the end of the day will refuse to submit to his leadership and lordship. Jesus told those who were listening to him to repent and believe. Repent means a turning away from. Repentance is often missing in the church today. We would do well to have a season of repentance in our churches today. Repentance of self sufficiency and self-reliance. Acting as though we were close to heaven and God gave us a hand up instead of what it really is which is a rebirth.

    5. Likes DHoffmann, psalms 91 liked this post
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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      You ask if it is enough to believe. No, it is not. Salvation is more than intellectual assent. The demons believe and shudder.

      18 But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” 19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. 20 But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?" James 2;18-20

      This is in my opinion one of the problems with the church today. That many people who claim to be believers will intellectually agree that Jesus is the Son of God, but at the end of the day will refuse to submit to his leadership and lordship. Jesus told those who were listening to him to repent and believe. Repent means a turning away from. Repentance is often missing in the church today. We would do well to have a season of repentance in our churches today. Repentance of self sufficiency and self-reliance. Acting as though we were close to heaven and God gave us a hand up instead of what it really is which is a rebirth.
      Believing because of faith is different than the believing that the demons did because there was no saving faith given for the demons...only to humans through Christ. So is believing enough? Absolutely. Is repentance something God does within us? Absolutely, because it includes faith to turn us to Him.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Believing because of faith is different than the believing that the demons did because there was no saving faith given for the demons...only to humans through Christ. So is believing enough? Absolutely. Is repentance something God does within us? Absolutely, because it includes faith to turn us to Him.
      Also many people believe in a God or creator in a broad sense and reject Christ

      Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk

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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      Also many people believe in a God or creator in a broad sense and reject Christ

      Sent from my LGLS755 using Tapatalk
      Believing that a God exists does not equate to faith. We can know from creation that there is a God but the Gospel of a Savior who forgives sins through death on the cross is foolishness apart from faith.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Believing because of faith is different than the believing that the demons did because there was no saving faith given for the demons...only to humans through Christ. So is believing enough? Absolutely. Is repentance something God does within us? Absolutely, because it includes faith to turn us to Him.
      From what I understand the word believe in the Bible is to put your whole faith and trust in. It isn't the same as an intellectual belief.

    10. Likes psalms 91, Josiah liked this post
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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      From what I understand the word believe in the Bible is to put your whole faith and trust in. It isn't the same as an intellectual belief.
      I wonder how that fits in with demons believing? James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you think that those demons "put their whole faith and trust in" God being one?
      Pope Gregory I was well known for his alms to the poor, and he gave quite generously of the riches donated to the Church by the wealthy people of Rome. Everything from money to land was given to the poor in some fashion. He made clear to his subordinates that their duty was to relieve the distress faced by the poor.

      He ordered his clergy to go out into the streets to find and care for the poor in person.

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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      I wonder how that fits in with demons believing? James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you think that those demons "put their whole faith and trust in" God being one?
      To the extent it is fact yes, as a saviour no. Since they exist in the spiritual it is seen and dioes not require faith per se.
      Isaiah 40:31

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      Quote Originally Posted by MoreCoffee View Post
      I wonder how that fits in with demons believing? James 2:19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you think that those demons "put their whole faith and trust in" God being one?

      See post 12
      We are justified by works - just not our own.

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