Did the Pope speak the truth?

MoreCoffee said:

Or is all this a farce, the thread's question, the implied disapproval of what was said, is it all a farce or does it make a farce of "The Perseverance of the Saints" that doctrine so precious that here in CH many threads have been filled with our Calvinist brethren defending it (including the one on Justification currently under discussion)? Does a man's death as an atheist mean that God's grace is no longer extended to such a man even though there is evidence that he had faith enough to have all four of his children baptised as Christians? If, as may be the case and for which there is evidence in the English translation of the transcript of the little boy's words and the pope's responses, the little boy's father had faith once and trusted in Christ once is he now abandoned. Is a man who was a child of God born through baptism into the family of God and into union with Christ abandoned by God when he - near the end of his life - says he is an atheist?

Let's see what answer is given.

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MoreCoffee said:

The little boy, Emanuele, needed an answer. Was what Francis said "true"? Maybe. Did Francis hear something more than the English translation says? Yes, I think he did.

And sister Lämmchen, what was wrong, specifically, in the words spoken by Francis?

The English translation for what the pope and the crowd said in Italian is:

If only we could cry like Emanuele when we have pain in our Hearts. He cries for his papa who died, and had the courage to do so before us because there is love in his heart for his papa. I asked Emanuele permission to reveal his question to the public and he said 'yes'.

"My papa died a short time ago. He was an atheist, but he baptised his four children. He was a good man. Is papa in heaven?"​

It's nice that a son says this about his father, that he was "good". Do you think that God would be able to leave a man like him far from Him? Do you think that?

[the crowd responds "no"]​

Louder, with courage.

[ the crowd says "No!"]​

Does God abandon His children?

[the crowd responds "No!"]​

Does God abandon His children when they are good?

[the crowd responds "No!"]​

Here, Emanuele, this is the answer. God surely was proud of your papa because it is easier when one is a believer to baptise his children, than to baptise them when you are an unbeliever. Surely God liked this so much. Talk to your papa, pray for your papa. Thanks Emanuele for your courage.​

What do you object to in that translation? Is it the crowd's responses? Do you object to the idea that a man who died an atheist but who evidently had faith enough to have his children baptised and very likely had faith in his youth and who was - according to his young son - a good man, do you object to the crowd saying that such a man would not be abandoned by God? Do you object to the pope speaking comforting words to the little boy whose father died recently?

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MoreCoffee said:

And what answer ought Francis have given to the little boy? To Emanuele whose father died recently and who couldn't speak a word at the microphone for crying and who whispered in Francis' ear and received a whispered answer and then after Francis and Emanuele were finished and the little boy gave permission to voice his whispered question, "My papa died a short time ago. He was an atheist, but he baptised his four children. He was a good man. Is papa in heaven?", what objectionable thing did Francis say? I didn't see a single objectionable word but perhaps you did so which words were objectionable or are you unhappy because Francis didn't say something that you think he ought to have said? Exactly what ought Francis to have said to the little boy in the public part of their discussion?

I think that this thread is not "defending" anything. It's a beat up. An attempt to create controversy where none really exists.

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