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    Christian Theology - Thread: Did the Pope speak the truth?

    1. #91
      DHoffmann's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      We're certain because we believe God when He says we are forgiven because of Christ. God does not lie. If we don't believe in Jesus as our Savior our works are no good since they are not done in faith.
      Understood but confidence differs for some and its not exactly a bad thing if you ask me. Jesus on the Cross even asked why God had forsaken him... ask yourself why he asked this? Did God forsake him?
      Fearing the Lord is something we must do first and then to fear no more but I fail to see the fine line, Arsenios is not promoting atheism or encouraging it, he is simply humbling himself before the Lord by pleading the blood of Christ on others before himself and thats love of others if you ask me. Jesus said forgive them, Arsenios says forgive them... for they know NOT as they know.

    2. #92
      Lämmchen's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      Understood but confidence differs for some and its not exactly a bad thing if you ask me. Jesus on the Cross even asked why God had forsaken him... ask yourself why he asked this? Did God forsake him?
      Fearing the Lord is something we must do first and then to fear no more but I fail to see the fine line, Arsenios is not promoting atheism or encouraging it, he is simply humbling himself before the Lord by pleading the blood of Christ on others before himself and thats love of others if you ask me. Jesus said forgive them, Arsenios says forgive them... for they know NOT as they know.
      Someone already posted verses where Jesus stated that those who do not believe will be condemned.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    3. #93
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      Someone already posted verses where Jesus stated that those who do not believe will be condemned.
      My argument is that just because we label someone atheist have we condemned them.? We dont know in the end, only God does. They may parade around as atheist the same as many christians parade around as Christians but this does not make it so. All unbelievers will have their part in the lake of fire, even if they consider themselves "Christian" by simply shouting out "Jesus Jesus" -doesnt exempt them, God examines the soul.
      You either have the mark of God on your forehead or you don't... -simple.. but Its not up to us to make this call, only his Angels can mark the foreheads of believers and for God alone to judge -not us.
      Last edited by DHoffmann; 07-09-2018 at 04:03 PM.

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    5. #94
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      My argument is that just because we label someone atheist have we condemned them.? We dont know in the end, only God does. They may parade around as atheist the same as many christians parade around as Christians but this does not make it so. All unbelievers will have their part in the lake of fire, even if they consider themselves "Christian" by simply shouting out "Jesus Jesus" -doesnt exempt them, God examines the soul.
      You either have the mark of God on your forehead or you don't... -simple.. but Its not up to us to make this call, only his Angels can mark the foreheads of believers and for God alone to judge -not us.
      God knows who has faith in Jesus as their Savior for salvation...but if the "Atheist" has faith then he won't be an Atheist in heaven. He would be a believer.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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    7. #95
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      God knows who has faith in Jesus as their Savior for salvation...but if the "Atheist" has faith then he won't be an Atheist in heaven. He would be a believer.
      Praise God! Amen.

    8. #96
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      Praise God! Amen.
      So you agree there won't be Atheists in heaven then?
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

    9. #97
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      So you agree there won't be Atheists in heaven then?
      Of course not!

    10. #98
      TangledWeb is offline Rookie Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by DHoffmann View Post
      He didn't say all atheist, he was a former atheist and its bold of him to state that as the believer he is -he is never 100% certain or guaranteed to pass through the gates of Heaven, a humble servant he is.
      Why would a believer not trust that God will receive him into heaven but would receive a nonbeliever, that's ludicrous!

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    12. #99
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      Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
      Wait what? That doesn’t sound like canonical Orthodox teaching. You’re saying Atheists have a better chance of getting into Heaven than you, a believer.

      That is dangerous teaching.

      That's the way believers in Works Righteousness reason. The atheist doesn't believe in God but he lives an otherwise good and charitable life while the Christian who really believes in Jesus nevertheless gives in to sin repeatedly, so....

    13. #100
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      Quote Originally Posted by TangledWeb View Post
      Why would a believer not trust that God will receive him into heaven but would receive a nonbeliever, that's ludicrous!
      nvrmnd
      Last edited by DHoffmann; 07-11-2018 at 08:25 PM.

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