dealing with dead or dying churches or church splits

Have you ever been in a church that died or split?

  • yes

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • no

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • unsure

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    4

NewCreation435

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I've never been involved in a parish that had a "split"....


But it seems the great majority of parishes are either "flat" or declining in membership/involvement. Many parts of California are Christian "ghost towns" with far more closed or now tiny churches than the many, vital, growing churches that was the norm 30+ years ago. There are MANY closed schools (the decline seems to have "hit" schools even more than churches). -HERE, it is obvious the secular/non-churched culture is winning fast and organized Christianity is in fast decline. It's obvious and undeniable. There are a FEW huge, new, non-denoms that seem to "buck" this but they by no means "make up" for the declining and closing churches... they get a lot of attention but are simply a huge exception. And (truth be known) they have HUGE losses each year, they just gain more than they loose, the "turn around" is enormous.


My own previous church (Catholic) founded in the early 60's still is large (I don't know if it was once larger but it's been "flat" for a long time now) BUT a huge paradigm shift has happened: once it was a European based church with lots of Catholics of German, Italian, Polish and Irish backgrounds.... many donating generously in terms of time and money and including the church in their wills so that until recently the parish had no debt. But in the past 20 years, it has transitioned to a mostly hispanic church of a much lower economic class. This has resulted in a lot of cuts to things simply to make the budget balance and the church had to borrow all the money for a major refurbishing that was required to the facilities - the mortgage for that meaning more cuts. As long as Hispanics join as fast as the German/Polish/Italian members die off - attendance is "flat" but we're already seeing that decline.


My own Lutheran parish is TINY (we worship in the 50's and 60's).... and we're very flat. We'll gain 10 members in a year, and loose 10 in a year (some by death, some by moving away, some by joining a couple of HUGE non-denom mega churches in town). Our converts INTO the church tend to be almost exclusively Catholics (last year, ALL the new members were former Catholics) but there are exceptions (my wife being a former Reformed Christian). What seems to attract people is the theology and the strong "family" and caring sense in the parish. What takes people away is that we offer few programs and don't have much of a youth group: We lose people to a couple of huge non-denoms that have HUNDREDS of programs for men, women, kids, teens - theatre companies, sports of every kind, singles groups, senior groups, men groups, lots of "how to" classes and worship that some think their kids will prefer.



- Josiah

When I worked at a very small church like you are describing we lost members to a nearby town because we couldn't offer all the programs and services that a larger church would. It is like Wal-Mart competing with a mom and pop store. The mom and pop store has one advantage though, they know your name there and they notice when you don't come. the larger church won't notice for the most part unless the person is a part of a small group of some kind. I think that is why many pastors in large churches are stressing groups. Because they know they can't possibly get to know all the members or their needs.
 

NewCreation435

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Aside from the impact of immigration, something is afoot when it comes to church membership. We all know that people are not joiners in the way they used to be, but beyond that fact, I think that in the future we will have only one or a few churches in any town which will host several very broadly-based, merged or non-denominational churches together in the way (and looking like) the few hospitals we now have. Nothing like the small and highly specialized ones on every street corner we have known.

I think that is because membership is not the focus because people come to church in many cases for what they can get out of it not what they can give. It is less about supporting and caring about other members of the church and more about what I can get from it. In some older churches that I have been in there are church covenants on the wall. It is basically a statement about how members are going to treat each other and their commitment to each other. I've never seen one of those in a newer church though
 

Josiah

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I think that is because membership is not the focus because people come to church in many cases for what they can get out of it not what they can give. It is less about supporting and caring about other members of the church and more about what I can get from it. In some older churches that I have been in there are church covenants on the wall. It is basically a statement about how members are going to treat each other and their commitment to each other. I've never seen one of those in a newer church though


I agree.... We live in an increasingly "consumer" society, and people increasingly consider the church just another "service provider." IMO, this gives an advantage to the huge mega-church (your earlier comparison to Walmart vs. a small "mom and pop" store applies well). People think: What can I get OUT of this association?"

For ME, what mattered far more than all else combined was theology... and next on the list (a very distant #2) is worship. And I was raised with the mentality of serving and giving... "ask NOT what your church can do for you but what you can do for your church" to misquote President Kennedy. I see the church as FAMILY committed to each other (fellows in the same boat) gathered around Word and Sacrament. The parish I finally settled on is TINY, without a lot of stuff to serve me... I was still single and looking and the reality of this church having NO ONE single and my age.... as compared to a couple of mega churches around with HUGE (and very productive, lol) single's groups.... well..... as I said, theology mattered. I ended up meeting my beloved via Christian Mingle anyway and she LOVED my church so it all worked out (funny how God does that). Yup.... I get to serve. I'm in the choir, teach Sunday School, and on the Board of Directors as the Chair of the Property Committee (which gives me LOTS of opportunity to fix, improve, etc.).


Some leave their church because they didn't get THEIR way (individualism has infected the church) - which is sad. I think people sometimes "leave" because they feel unloved (even unnoticed) or excluded.... and those are SAD. But I think more because they think some other church will give them more than their current one (consumerism)... and those are understandable but sad. And then there are a tiny number who leave because of theology (my reason for leaving as well as for joining).



- Josiah
 

Lamb

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I voted yes because when I was a teen the synod my church belonged to became part of another synod so it was kind of split. My mom didn't remain there long after and when every sermon was begging for money I stopped attending as well.
 
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