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    Bible Study - Thread: Who was Melchizedek?

    1. #21
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      ================================================== ============================================

      Post #19, Arsenios: Are Christians in the Order of Melchidezek?

      It is a good question.


      I thought so myself!

      Because, you see, we are Baptized INTO Christ...
      We thus become MEMBERS of the Body of Christ...
      Christ Himself claims us to BE Himself to Saul on the Road to Damascus...
      So as the incarnate Body of Christ,
      we have to somehow BE within that Order...

      - The answer can be determined by breaking that question into two component parts, and considering each in turn:
      - According to Holy Scripture, what does the Order of Melchidezek actually mean with respect to Jesus?
      - According to Holy Scripture, what is a true believer’s relationship to Jesus, and what is the implication of that?
      A logical approach!

      ================================================== ============================================

      1. What does the Order of Melchidezek actually mean with respect to Jesus?

      a. Jesus is a priest forever, with a rank likened to that of Melchizedek (Hebrews 5:6)
      b. Jesus is called by God, a high priest with a rank likened to that of Melchizedek. (Hebrews 5:10)
      c. Jesus was made a high priest for ever with a rank likened to that of Melchizedek. (Hebrews 6:20)
      d. The Levitical priesthood performed the intermediary process that linked man to God. (Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy)
      e. Melchizedek’s priesthood was superior to that of the Levites. (Hebrews 7:1-11)
      f. Melchizedek’s priesthood presaged another priesthood that would be superior to the Levitical. (Hebrews 7:12-28)
      OK - But what are the features of the Melchidezekian Priesthood itself, irreligious of its relationship to other priesthoods? How can we tell if someone is WITHIN this priesthood? What questions would we ask him to find out? Or do we simply read the Bible to find out its two solo members?

      ================================================== ============================================

      2. What is a true believer’s relationship to Jesus, and what is the implication of that?

      True believers are said to be members of the Body of Christ.
      But does that include inheritance of the high priestly “Order of Melchizedek”?
      Well, Christians are Biblically called a "Royal Priesthood"...

      Do the following statements throw any light on the subject?

      a. Jesus, the Son of God who has passed into the heavens, is our great high priest. (Hebrews 4:14)
      That would seem to indicate that He is Priest of priests - The High Priest...

      b. As part of that priestly accession, Jesus has been made higher than the heavens. (Hebrews 7:26)
      Yes, in His Human Nature, which is what we are too...

      c. Jesus is our forerunner (and still was a forerunner, not a co-runner, at the time of the epistle being written). (Hebrews 6:20)
      He is eternally the forerunner, because He was the very First to overcome death in Hades after He died... I mean, He is the Forerunner of the Faith even thid very day and hour...

      d. We have not entered into that state yet. (Hebrews 6:19)
      Hebrews 6:19 tells us we have indeed entered that state already...
      Indeed that such entry is indeed the Anchor of our Hope...

      This hope we have as an anchor of the soul,
      a hope both sure and steadfast
      and one which enters within the veil,


      Are you saying we have not entered within this veil??
      Hebrews 6:19 tells us that we have...

      ================================================== ============================================

      Based on the above, I submit that Christians can in no way be considered to be “in the Order of Melchidezek”.
      Based on the same, I do not see how they cannot be so, yet I do not know exactly their manner of doing so...

      And thus another potential door (back door?),
      possibly invoked to permit the justification of
      an organised, hierarchical priesthood,
      remains firmly locked shut.
      So THAT's your DOG in this FIGHT!

      I agree - Many of the Christian Priests I know are down at the Levitical level...
      I have encountered some who are not...

      Which is MY dog in this meet!

      ================================================== ============================================[/QUOTE]


      Arsenios
      Last edited by Arsenios; 07-08-2018 at 04:12 PM.

    2. #22
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      Post #19, Arsenios: Are Christians in the Order of Melchidezek?

      It is a good question.
      It is a question that I have not seen ever addressed in the writings of the Fathers of the Church...

      Nor have I answered it for myself...

      Arsenios

    3. #23
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      Quote Originally Posted by Arsenios View Post
      It is a question that I have not seen ever addressed in the writings of the Fathers of the Church...

      Nor have I answered it for myself...

      Arsenios
      Lets see, we know Christ was compared to it and Christ is in us so I would venture that we are
      Isaiah 40:31

    4. #24
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      Quote Originally Posted by psalms 91 View Post
      Lets see,
      we know Christ was compared to it
      and Christ is in us
      so I would venture that we are
      That is how I read it, but who has what that priesthood requires?

      John and Harpo and Ollie down at the local Church sure don't seem to have it...

      Or even know what IT is that Melchidesek had...

      What is the calling, the Gifts, and the requirements of attainment, of this Priesthood?

      And who has them?

      Are they extinct because of Christ?

      Or are they still an active priesthood?

      Arsenios

    5. #25
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      ================================================== ============================================

      Post #21, Arsenios pointed out that (what I call) true Christians are a royal priesthood. That is from 1Peter 2:9. He also pointed out that therefore Hebrews 4:14 means that Jesus is “Priest of priests – The High Priest”.

      Well pointed out.

      He then went on to (among other things) offer an interpretation of Hebrews 6:19 that I had not seen before. Instead of our hope (from the previous verse Hebrews 6:18) being the item that is entering (present participle) into (behind) the veil, it is us. The former meaning (it is the hope that is entering) is the one offered in the commentaries I have access to, and it seems to be the natural meaning. Having given it some careful thought, I identified no vested interest, and no cherished doctrine needing questionable support, that could sway the commentators in this instance. (However, those considerations are very evident in other specific places in the Bible – in both commentaries and translations, and also in lexicons (in translation dictionaries – the instances where theological statements are inserted posing as natural meanings).)

      ================================================== ============================================

      However, why don’t we temporarily grant acceptance to Arsenios’ interpretation and see where that leads.

      In reasonable summary (if I’ve got it right):
      - Jesus is our Great High Priest in the Heavens;
      - We are a royal priesthood that has joined Him beyond the veil;
      - He is a Priest of priests;
      - And therefore from two perspectives true Christians can be classified as priests.

      The conclusion is totally true. The priesthood of all true believers is confirmed. Even without Arsenios’ interpretation of Hebrews 6:19.

      But note: we are all priests. All of us. That’s what it says. But apart from Jesus’ headship, there is no hint of hierarchy. It is a level playing field.

      And there is no hint at all of, and no justification for, a worldly (earthly), hierarchical, physical priesthood as we see today – a multi-level canopy-style priesthood superimposed on the original, apostolic model of independent local churches. Especially, there is no justification for a priesthood that acts as a go-between, connecting people to God through ritual “sacraments”. (Paul’s pictorial use of body parts in 1 Corinthians 12:1-30 to picture spiritual gifts given to individuals in apostolic times, is not pertinent to a discussion of hierarchical organisations spanning multiple local churches.)

      ================================================== ============================================

      I suggest therefore that the scoreboard indicates:

      Priesthood of all true believers – 1.
      Worldly hierarchical priesthood – 0.


      ================================================== ============================================
      Seeking to understand with precision, God's holy and coherent revelation to us.

    6. #26
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      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      Post #21,
      Arsenios pointed out that (what I call) true Christians are a royal priesthood.
      He also pointed out that therefore Hebrews 4:14 means that Jesus is “Priest of priests – The High Priest”.

      Well pointed out.
      Please forgive me for dragging you tail-first into such a conclusion...
      And thank you for having the integrity to be logically so dragged!

      He then went on to (among other things) offer
      an interpretation of Hebrews 6:19
      that I had not seen before.
      Well THAT therefore is what I am HERE for!

      Instead of our hope (from the previous verse Hebrews 6:18) being the item that is entering (present participle) into (behind) the veil, it is us.
      Heb 6:17-20
      Wherein God,
      desiring more abundantly to show
      unto the heirs of Promise
      the immutability of his counsel,
      confirmed it by an oath:
      That by two immutable things,
      in which it was impossible for God to lie,
      we who are fleeing for refuge
      should have strong Help,
      to lay hold upon
      the Hope set before us:
      Which Hope we do have
      as an anchor of the soul,
      both sure and steadfast,
      and
      Which is entering into the innermost of the veil;
      Whither the Forerunner is for us entered,
      even Jesus,
      made an High Priest for ever
      after the order of Melchisedec.


      The former meaning (it is the hope that is entering) is the one offered in the commentaries I have access to, and it seems to be the natural meaning.
      It IS the natural meaning...
      AND...
      It HAS implications...

      Because we do enter into the Holy of Holies WITH our Hope and Expectation that is God Given as the Surety of the Promise... We do NOT take it off and throw it in there, but we are Baptized INTO Christ who IS our High Priest who LIVES there... We who live in Christ in the world gather together in worship, and in our common work (liturgy) of the Services of our Lord, the Heavens open and we enter in and receive the Body and Blood of the Risen Christ... For the remission of sins and Life Eternal...
      My Dear Pedrito, how can your Hope which God Gave to you enter therein if YOU somehow do NOT?

      Having given it some careful thought, I identified no vested interest, and no cherished doctrine needing questionable support, that could sway the commentators in this instance. (However, those considerations are very evident in other specific places in the Bible – in both commentaries and translations, and also in lexicons (in translation dictionaries – the instances where theological statements are inserted posing as natural meanings).
      Peerhaps the above question might prove natural enough for you... I did alter the translation a few tads...

      [quote]However, why don’t we temporarily grant acceptance to Arsenios’ interpretation and see where that leads.[quote]

      Most do not...

      In reasonable summary (if I’ve got it right):
      - Jesus is our Great High Priest in the Heavens; [and on earth]
      - We are a royal priesthood that has joined Him beyond the veil; [while on earth - we are His Body on earth]
      - He is a Priest of priests;
      - And therefore from two perspectives true Christians can be classified as priests. [We ARE Christ's Body on earth]
      I added my corrections to your querie of IF...

      The conclusion is totally true. The priesthood of all true believers is confirmed. Even without Arsenios’ interpretation of Hebrews 6:19.
      Wait a minute! Did you not just say that for the sake of the argument, you were going to ASSUME I was right, and see what conclusion would follow? And now you are saying it is true WITHOUT the conclusion? This has a certain wonkiness to it, Pedrito...

      But note: we are all priests. All of us. That’s what it says. But apart from Jesus’ headship, there is no hint of hierarchy. It is a level playing field.
      Paul tells us to seek the higher Gifts... He describes the order of the Church in terms of their attainment as given by God:

      1Cor 12:28
      And God hath set some in the Ekklesia,
      First: The Apostles,
      Second: The Prophets,
      Third: The Teachers,
      After that Miracle Workers,
      Then the Gifts of healings,
      The Helps,
      The Governments,
      The Diversities of Tongues.


      Notice they are in hierarchical worldly order, and the whole of it is under the Aegis of Christ Who is the Head of His Body, the Ekklesia, and Whose Will is done in His Body, except for the sins committed therein...

      And there is no hint at all of, and no justification for, a worldly (earthly), hierarchical, physical priesthood as we see today – a multi-level canopy-style priesthood superimposed on the original, apostolic model of independent local churches.
      Yet there IS a Spiritual Hierarchy of Gifts IN the world...

      Especially, there is no justification for a priesthood that acts as a go-between,
      connecting people to God through ritual “sacraments”.
      What is it that you think a Priest DOES??? Is not the Priesthood CHANNEL for the GIVING of the GRACE of God? How do you think Paul got Baptized INTO Christ?? HOW did Ananias FILL Paul with the Holy Spirit? IS NOT the Laying On of Hands a Priestly ACTION that is Holy and a Sacrament?

      (Paul’s pictorial use of body parts in 1 Corinthians 12:1-30 to picture spiritual gifts given to individuals in apostolic times, is not pertinent to a discussion of hierarchical organisations spanning multiple local churches.)
      Saying so doesn't make it so...

      I suggest therefore that the scoreboard indicates:
      What are you going to say to God, Pedrito?
      I kept SCORE!
      YOU won the prize???

      I mean, SCOREBOARD???

      Better, my Brother, to simply LIVE the Mystery of this Faith of Christ in purity of heart.
      Which means living a confessional and penitent life...

      God Bless You, Bro'!

      Arsenios
      Last edited by Arsenios; 07-11-2018 at 06:53 PM.

    7. #27
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      There is no way I will follow that long post or pull out what I am referring to so will just post. Yes, we have entrance into the holy of holies but it is my experience that most have never attained it simply because they are not willing to pay the price of being purged by the fire for it is the Holy of holies and there are rules to entering in and we should always have a fear a nd thremble at standing befoe the creator of everything for does it not say that we should work out our salvation with fear and trembling and it also says that fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Most do not claim to hear God or have visions so how can they enter in when it is spiritual and not physical if they cant hear or see?
      Isaiah 40:31

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    9. #28
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      Quote Originally Posted by psalms 91 View Post
      There is no way I will follow that long post or pull out what I am referring to so will just post. Yes, we have entrance into the holy of holies but it is my experience that most have never attained it simply because they are not willing to pay the price of being purged by the fire for it is the Holy of holies and there are rules to entering in and we should always have a fear a nd thremble at standing befoe the creator of everything for does it not say that we should work out our salvation with fear and trembling and it also says that fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Most do not claim to hear God or have visions so how can they enter in when it is spiritual and not physical if they cant hear or see?
      You are describing the condition of most Christians, yet each generation does indeed have some who attain to God... The rest of us poor slobs, who have not found the Narrow and Straited Way, do not know God as the few do, and take the word of the few over self opinion... Each according to their calling, and all participating in the Services of the Ekklesia inasmuch as they can... Most are not given the full 10 talents, and of those who are, most do not invest them very wisely nor do they cause them to multiply... But some do... Most are lucky to find themselves with so much as one talent, and if they are able to increase it at all, they are thanking God with tears...

      And even those who limit their faith to the Bible are relying on those who have taken the Kingdom of Heaven with Love and Courage and have then by Divine Providence written about it whose writings were recognized by other valiant persons in the Ekklesia so as to recognize and canonize their writings... Not all are called to the High Calling... Most of us simply labor and marry and rear our children in the Love of God that we are able to give them... Yet in the Church there is always a Way to ascend for those who desire to do so, and there are wise men and women one can and will find who can give the boost needed, there are always writings that give the help and encouragement needed, and even in the absence of all these, there is God Himself Who will direct, IF one is willing to cast aside fear and embrace the Way of Christ unto blood...

      The Medicines of Immortality are simple and profound - Easy to understand and hard to do, requiring great courage motivated by love... Once established in the soul, they will not permit a person's return to their old vomit easily, if at all... These medicines are love of truth, denial of self, confession of sin, repentance from evil, love of God and self-sacrifice for the sake of others, the giving of alms, the discipline of prayer, and even prayer without ceasing, and the willingness to let God's Will direct one's own will, and to seek God's Willl in all things, and to withdraw one's self from judging others, but to seek their benefit and not their condemnation...

      And we can do so little good, and the good we do is so tarnished and weak, and even so to ever pursue it, knowing we will fail, and casting that failure to the winds and keeping on our pursuit, no matter what might happen... The Way requires great courage... Ascending the Cross required great courage... Taking up our own cross calmly with level eyes takes coursge... The cross is an instrument of torture unto death... It is the Cost of Discipleship... It MUST be chosen freely, or it is nothing... And IF it is embraced, it is everything... Willingness of its embrace will vary across a lifetime, through crisis after crisis, according to the person being saved, and God is always with you, even when, and especially when, you cannot sense His Presence at all, for THAT is where you will grow the most, or fall back, or even fall away, God forbid... God does not leave such courage unrewarded... Even where He does not appear to the one exercising it... God does not withold Righteousness from the brave... Nor does He pass it out freely to the cowardly...

      For those who are minimalists in the Faith, we go to Church on Sundays, pray before meals, Pray going to bed and upon arising, and do the best we can throughout the day in our labors and projects... We tend to recharge our batteries with vacations to places of rest and play and being served... We tend to live good lives mostly in peace with our neighbors... And some of us, when we have completed this walk, and our children are grown and we no longer are needed for rearing children, withdraw from the world, and enter into a life of extended prayer and labors for God, and get to do what could not be done in the exigencies of worldly cares and responsibilities... And in the sufferings of old age, we find our Peace...

      You are right that most are not willing to face the trials by fire that God offers to us, and so do not attain to God right away... But even those who do - The monastic Christians that flee the world to serve God in the Monastic deserts of labors, fastings, sleeplessness, solitude, vigils nightly in prayer, and the daily regimen of Church Services, themselves do not for that reason necessarily have visions or receive Gifts... Yet they would not have their lives any other way, for they know the other way of their own soul, and want no part of it...

      One elder had a young monk take a leaky pail to the river each day and bring it back to him with water in it, and the monk did so for several years... Another monk asked the elder what he was teaching the young monk... Every day he gets the water and it leaks out on his way back here so nothing is left when he gets here... And the old monk said: "You are right... It is time we show him the fruit of his labors... And he said to the young monk: "You have brought me water every day which all leaked out of the pail with holes in it, and you never arrived here with any water in the pail, yes?" And the young monk said: "Yes, Elder..." "And look at your pail with the holes in it - What do you see?" And the young monk said: "A pail with holes in it." So the Elder said: "And look over on the side of my hut, and what do you see?" And the yound monk said: "A different pail with holes in it." "And how does the other pail look..." It is totally rusted out and filled with dirt and cobwebs and other things..." And the old monk said: "You have learned well - Even if you do not see any progress in your prayers, you are not being submerged into the disintegration of worldly engagement... This obedience is not completed..."

      The work of God in our souls spans decaded - In 50 years we will find but one brick laid up maybe once each 10 years... And we need to pay attention... We can get so caught up in the daily melodramas of our "spiritual" lives that we miss utterly the big moves that slip in un-noticed all that much do not seem to have much immediate impact... Yet they are there, building up over a lifetime... Creating a structure in our souls... Built by God... That we worship Him inwardly in a temple not built with human hands, but by the Holy Spirit... In Spirit and in Truth... Christ IN you... Your very physical body IS the Temple of God on earth... And it needs to be kept clean, which requires living lives of vigil against sin, Loving God with all that we have, and loving our neighbors as our very selves...

      And our willingness to do this is 100% our responsibility...
      And our efficacy in doing so is 100% God's responsibility...
      We must expend our willingness utterly...
      That we should fully attain God's...

      The thief on the cross attained Paradise confessing Christ...
      In the unbearable agonies of his final hour...

      Judas Iscariot destroyed himself...
      For the sake of 30 pieces of silver...

      Arsenios
      Last edited by Arsenios; 07-11-2018 at 12:28 PM.

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    11. #29
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      ================================================== ============================================

      Arsenios, Post #24: [emphasis added, blank lines removed to conserve space]:
      That is how I read it, but who has what that priesthood requires?
      John and Harpo and Ollie down at the local Church sure don't seem to have it…
      Or even know what IT is that Melchidesek had...
      What is the calling, the Gifts, and the requirements of attainment, of this Priesthood?
      And who has them?
      Are they extinct because of Christ?
      Or are they still an active priesthood?
      And Post #26 [emphasis added]:
      Paul tells us to seek the higher Gifts... He describes the order of the Church in terms of their attainment as given by God:
      He then quotes1 Corinthians 12:28 which includes the term “gifts of healing”, and follows that with: Notice they are in hierarchical worldly order, and the whole of it is under the Aegis of Christ Who is the Head of His Body, the Ekklesia, and Whose Will is done in His Body...

      I suggest to Readers that there are two problems with the above thoughts. And that those problems are not difficult to discern.

      ================================================== ============================================

      First of all, the bestowed, supernatural abilities listed in 1 Corinthians 12:28 are not hierarchical. They are simply listed in order of importance. If they were in “hierarchical worldly order”: people given the ability to speak in various languages would report to those who had been given given the special ability to be administrators; those administrators would in turn get their instructions from those who had been given given the special ability to aid others; those aiding would have healers as their bosses; the healers would would report to the miracle workers; the miracle workers would obey the teachers; and so on…

      Actually, those individually endowed abilities were independent functionalities. They bore no relationship to, and gave no hint of, any worldly hierarchy.

      ================================================== ============================================

      Secondly, Paul wasn’t writing to us. He was writing to people living in his day – living at the time when the supernatural spiritual gifts were still in operation.

      The Bible indicates clearly that the apostles were the only channel through which those gifts could be conferred. (If any Reader is unsure where that is revealed, please feel free to ask.) When the last of the apostles and conferees died, the supernatural spiritual gifts were no more.

      That statement is supported by asking a simple question: Where today do we find anyone who heals every health-distressed person who comes to them for help (no exceptions)?

      The gift of healing had no holes in it. (Acts 5:16)

      ================================================== ============================================

      I would suggest that once again, an attempt to drum up Scriptural support for a hierarchical, worldly priesthood (such as can be seen in much of Christendom today) has been weighed in the balances and found wanting.


      ================================================== ============================================
      Seeking to understand with precision, God's holy and coherent revelation to us.

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      Quote Originally Posted by Pedrito View Post
      First of all, the bestowed, supernatural abilities listed in 1 Corinthians 12:28 are not hierarchical.
      They are simply listed in order of importance.
      The listing of them in order of importance is quintessential hierarchy...

      The least important for Paul was the Gift of Tongues being conferred at Baptism... Virtually all those Baptized into Christ received it...

      If they were in “hierarchical worldly order”: people given the ability to speak in various languages would report to those who had been given given the special ability to be administrators; those administrators would in turn get their instructions from those who had been given given the special ability to aid others; those aiding would have healers as their bosses; the healers would would report to the miracle workers; the miracle workers would obey the teachers; and so on…
      Fallacy of the False Alternative...

      Actually, those individually endowed abilities were independent functionalities.
      They bore no relationship to, and gave no hint of, any worldly hierarchy.
      Were they not assigned to those functioning within the Ekklesia in the world?

      Secondly, Paul wasn’t writing to us.
      He was writing to people living in his day

      living at the time when the supernatural spiritual gifts were still in operation.
      So they began and ended when??

      The Bible indicates clearly that the apostles were the only channel through which those gifts could be conferred.
      (If any Reader is unsure where that is revealed, please feel free to ask.) When the last of the apostles and conferees died, the supernatural spiritual gifts were no more.
      OK - Where is it written that the Spiritual Gifts were no more the day after the conferees and the Apostles had all died...??

      That statement is supported by asking a simple question: Where today do we find anyone who heals every health-distressed person who comes to them for help (no exceptions)?
      "With no exceptions" is a worldly standard... And the Bible itself states very clearly, does it not, that in the Ekklesia God gives some to be Apostles, and others to be Prophets, and others Healings, etc etc... It does not say that only in the present generation, does God give the Gifts of Apostleship, Prophetical utterances, Healings, etc...

      I have only known one person in the Church who healed all illnesses and diseases without exception of those who were ill in the Church, and that went on for several years. I do not know what happened with that person - But we were all hurrying to bring all our terminally ill relatives to receive healing, and they all did... I do not even know if people outside the Church received healings through that one... I do not even know if he or she was a man or a woman... I just figured that if God wants me ill, then I will be ill, and if in health, then I will be healthy, and if strong, strone, and weak then weak... So it did not matter to me all that much, and we did not make a big deal of it, but simply came by word of mouth as needed as this person went from Orthodox Church to Orthodox Church across the country... We kept that person's identity and Gift very hidden in Christ, in His Body, in the Ekklesia...

      The gift of healing had no holes in it. (Acts 5:16)
      There it was being used as a means of conversion publically among the Chosen People of God - The Israelites... To conclude that this means it "has no holes it", while true, does not mean that the Gift of Healing has to be
      PROVEN by setting up a laboratory with scientists bringing in, say, a statistical sample of 24,000 terminally ill people and having them prayed for by someone with this Gift and only if all 24,000 are healed of their terminal illness is that person to be considered as actually having the Gift of Healing... This is the worldlification of heavenly Gifts... God is not made worldly in His Giving of Gifts... So that suddenly the pereson so Gifted has as his or her own the Godly Gifts to administer as he or she pleases... They are to be used according to God's Holy Will and Purposes, not man's... So worldly universal applicability is not the appropriate standard of their existence... Indeed once only can be enough, and more especially so if YOU are that very ONCE...

      I would suggest that once again, an attempt to drum up Scriptural support for a hierarchical, worldly priesthood (such as can be seen in much of Christendom today) has been weighed in the balances and found wanting
      You are right that a hierarchical Ekklesiastical Priesthood can be seen in MUCH, and indeed most, of Christianity today... It is found in ALL the Churches having their roots in Apostolic foundings... It is present in the Church that Canonized Holy Scripture in the 4th Century... It is apparent in the Bible, where Apostles, Bishops, Presbyters and Deacons were ordained, and where many, many others served in the Ekklesia...

      The only ones rejecting it are some of the post-Reformationist Churches one thousand five hundred years after Christ with their own printed Bibles and a very reasonable theological axe to grind with the Western Latin Church at Rome...

      But back to this hierarchically ordered Church of Christ, its Priesthood: Is it Melchisedekian? Or is it, as I suspect, the more administrative Aaronic, Priesthood in the Body of Christ...? Or is it somewhere in the middle? [eg in its historical finding for the last 2000 years] Can we see this historical Priesthood as a middle ground of some kind, between the Levitical Priesthood, appointed through the hands of men already in the Priesthood, whereein their Service before the Altar of Christ is intended to perfect them in the Faith of Christ so that God can then Ordain them directly into the Higher Order? And that those so Ordained of God then find themselves at the top of the hierarchy overseeing the Church as a whole? Not as authoritarians, but as giving Spiritual Direction, as we found with John in Revelation?

      Is that not the difference between the regular Priesthood and the Melchisedekian Priesthood? That the former is appointed by God through men in His Ekklesia, but that the latter is appointed by God directly? And that when this occurs, they essentially have no past and are without death in them? And yet they pass from this earth?

      These are questions I have been looking at for some time now...

      Authoritarian structures in Church administration has nothing to do with them...

      Arsenios

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