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    World Religion & Speculative Theology - Thread: Genesis story of creation "Days" literal or not?

    1. #31
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      What I say is that we don't know how long the days of creation were. We know that the weeks in Daniel are not literal. We know the sun wasn't created until day 4 and in day 1 the earth was formless. How do we get a 24 hour day out of a formless planet?
      According to Exodus 20:10-11 the days are indeed literal, since a direct comparison is made between the days of Creation and the work and Sabbath days in the Sabbath command. So the position you take is that God was telling a fib or purposely misleading the Hebrew listeners in making such a comparison. Basically your position makes God into a liar for the sake of whatever cosmology you want to believe in.

      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      What I say is that God created and God shares his sequence of creation with us. If it took 144 hours or 144 billion years is irrelevant to me. The relevant part of the story is original sin and the corruption it brought to all creation.
      Original sin (that is, inherited or inescapable sin as nature and passed on through procreation) is not taught in Genesis. It is taught by Saul/Paul when he puts his spin on the Genesis account and what it means.

    2. #32
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      According to Exodus 20:10-11 the days are indeed literal, since a direct comparison is made between the days of Creation and the work and Sabbath days in the Sabbath command. So the position you take is that God was telling a fib or purposely misleading the Hebrew listeners in making such a comparison. Basically your position makes God into a liar for the sake of whatever cosmology you want to believe in.



      Original sin (that is, inherited or inescapable sin as nature and passed on through procreation) is not taught in Genesis. It is taught by Saul/Paul when he puts his spin on the Genesis account and what it means.
      24 hour days are irrelevant even in Exodus 20. Days are pointed out, but the time makes no difference. Question: When was the measurement of "hours" created? Would you say that's a recent invention or ancient?
      As for you concept of original sin and Paul...it's just one of your inventions to avoid God's present action on earth. I take your views with a grain of salt.

    3. #33
      jsimms435's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      24 hour days are irrelevant even in Exodus 20. Days are pointed out, but the time makes no difference. Question: When was the measurement of "hours" created? Would you say that's a recent invention or ancient?
      As for you concept of original sin and Paul...it's just one of your inventions to avoid God's present action on earth. I take your views with a grain of salt.
      If you want to talk about original sin then I just started a thread about that here
      http://christianityhaven.com/showthr...484#post128484

      Let's stay on topic in this thread

    4. #34
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by jsimms435 View Post
      If you want to talk about original sin then I just started a thread about that here
      http://christianityhaven.com/showthr...484#post128484

      Let's stay on topic in this thread
      The present topic has reached its irrelevant end...

    5. #35
      ImaginaryDay2's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      Original sin (that is, inherited or inescapable sin as nature and passed on through procreation) is not taught in Genesis. It is taught by Saul/Paul when he puts his spin on the Genesis account and what it means.
      And therein lies some of the problem - we are to accept evidence presented by you ("fact", I think you called it, which should cause one to question out of hand); however, consideration of other (relatively) accepted norms ("fact", as you might call it), is dismissed by you.
      I can't stop the world from turning around, or the pull of the moon on the tide...
      But I don't believe that we're in this alone, I believe we're along for the ride..
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    6. #36
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      And therein lies some of the problem - we are to accept evidence presented by you ("fact", I think you called it, which should cause one to question out of hand); however, consideration of other (relatively) accepted norms ("fact", as you might call it), is dismissed by you.
      Eh?

      Whether or not something is presented by me or someone else is irrelevant. It's only the evidence itself that stands or falls on it's own merit.

      As for what I dismiss (Saul/Paul's teaching is what you refer to?) I have given lengthy explanations for this elsewhere, that not ONE PERSON has even attempted to address honestly without being insulting and leveling childish accusations (and that would be others at this point, not you)

      As for Genesis, there is no original sin found there. You can put quotes around the word *fact* if you like, but the concept as it relates to Genesis is largely from Saul/Paul's writings. It's unique to Pauline Christianity. Judaism by and large does not accept it.

    7. #37
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      24 hour days are irrelevant even in Exodus 20. Days are pointed out, but the time makes no difference.
      I wouldn't necessarily say irrelevant. The Hebrews (I think) were able to draw the connection between the "days" (figurative) of God's work in creation, and their 24-hour "days". One would have to stick with only one definition for "day", however, to have them mean the same thing.
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      But I don't believe that we're in this alone, I believe we're along for the ride..
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    8. #38
      Pedrito's Avatar
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      The initial chapters of Genesis contain summarised statements of accomplishment, not statements of mechanism.

      ================================================== ============================================

      Day – Hebrew יוֹם (yowm) – Strong’s H3117 – Strong: a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term) – Brown-Driver-Briggs: day, time, year, day (as opposed to night), day (24 hour period), evening and morning, a working day, a day's journey, time, period (general), year, days, lifetime (pl.), etc.

      Genesis 1:5: And God called the light, Day. And He called the darkness, Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day
      Genesis 1:16: And God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the smaller light to rule the night, and the stars [also.]
      Genesis 2:4: These [are] the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they [were] created in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
      Genesis 4:3: And in the end of days, it happened, Cain brought to the LORD an offering of the fruit of the ground.
      Genesis 6:4: There were giants in the earth in those days. And also after that, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore to them, they were mighty men who [existed] of old, men of renown.
      Genesis 6:5: And the LORD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
      Genesis 18:11: Now Abraham and Sarah [were] old, far gone in days, and it had ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
      Genesis 27:44: and stay with him a few days until your brother's fury turns away,
      Genesis 27:45: until your brother's anger turns away from you and he forgets what you have done to him. Then I will send and bring you from there. Why should I also be bereaved of both of you [in] one day?
      Isaiah 34:8: For [it is] the day of the LORD's vengeance, the year to repay for the fighting against Zion.
      Ezekiel 30:3 For the day [is] near, even the day of the LORD [is] near, a cloudy day. It shall be the time of the nations.

      ================================================== ============================================

      Evening and morning – What happens in the evening? Colours fade, detail becomes indistinct, visual perception descends into chaos. What happens in the morning? Colours appear, leaves on trees become distinguishable, corners on buildings become progressively more distinct.

      The expression “the evening and the morning were” denotes God’s progressive creation of order out of chaos during the particular time period noted.

      The “days” coincide with phases of the Earth’s formation and population with life, as determined by modern science. (There is one apparent deviation from that – but is it simply a translation problem?)

      The “days” (formation and population phases) are recorded with accuracy, as though the author was observing the process from, or near, the Earth’s surface. And from that perspective, all the “problems” dissolve. (If Readers do not get why that is so, please ask for clarification.)

      The obvious question then arises: How did that author know?

      ================================================== ============================================

      The gap theory, postulates that between the creation of the Earth mentioned in Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2, there is a large time gap. The idea seems to have been initially formulated to harmonise what appeared to be indisputable evidence of a very old Earth, with the concept of 6x24-hour-days-of-creation. It is often associated with a pre-Adamic civilisation destroyed by Satan, allowing Verse 2 onwards to be a recreation. The latter idea is demolished by Satan being in the Garden of Eden before he became Satan. The former idea is quashed by the science-connected phases recorded.

      ================================================== ============================================

      Mimicking Mesopotamian law and literature – Actually, the shoe might be on the other foot. The myths etc. of pagan civilisations could be seen to be simply distortions of the original history. See how quickly the Israelites descended into paganism each time God delivered them from the penalty of their previous lapse. It only took one generation.

      Abram’s (Abraham’s) and Noah’s lives overlapped by around 60 years. And Abram lived in the city that was the logical expansion of Noah’s original post-Flood settlement. It would make sense that Abram learned about the true God and original history from the well-known but largely ignored Noah.
      Seeking to understand with precision, God's holy and coherent revelation to us.

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