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    Christian Advice Requested - Thread: Measurable Data?

    1. #1
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Measurable Data?

      In another thread a poster mentioned that they were "growing in their faith."
      How can a person actually measure such a statement and show that there is growth in a person's faith?
      What measurable objectives would you write to show actual growth?
      Finish this statement using specific verbs that can be measured.
      To show that a Christian is growing in faith the Christian will...____________ (what? Please use a verb that can be measured.)
      Example: To show that a Christian is growing in faith the Christian will be able to recite the 23rd Psalm.

    2. #2
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      tango is offline Bronze Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      In another thread a poster mentioned that they were "growing in their faith."
      How can a person actually measure such a statement and show that there is growth in a person's faith?
      What measurable objectives would you write to show actual growth?
      Finish this statement using specific verbs that can be measured.
      To show that a Christian is growing in faith the Christian will...____________ (what? Please use a verb that can be measured.)
      Example: To show that a Christian is growing in faith the Christian will be able to recite the 23rd Psalm.
      If a Christian is growing they will show more of the fruit of the Spirit. Good luck objectively measuring that though.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    3. #3
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
      If a Christian is growing they will show more of the fruit of the Spirit. Good luck objectively measuring that though.
      A good topic for the theology thread...

    4. #4
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      Lämmchen is offline God's Lil Lamb
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      I don't know how faith could be measured by man...but I do know the opposite of growing in faith is to turn away from the Savior and the forgiveness of sins He won at the cross for us.
      "Christianity does not require more work but more trust." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "Bearing fruit does not make you a branch. A branch is a branch because it grows from the vine." Pr. Jonathan Fisk
      "A Christian's life is not defined by what the Christian does. It is defined by Christ and what He has done for us." Pr. Rolf David Preus

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    6. #5
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Lämmchen View Post
      I don't know how faith could be measured by man...but I do know the opposite of growing in faith is to turn away from the Savior and the forgiveness of sins He won at the cross for us.
      So, it can be measured.
      In truth, James helps us measure faith so that we can determine if a person is growing in faith or not.

    7. #6
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      So, it can be measured.
      In truth, James helps us measure faith so that we can determine if a person is growing in faith or not.
      James talks a lot about works being evidence of faith. The trouble with trying to use that as a yardstick is firstly that a lot of people have works without any faith at all and secondly that a lot of people who do good works don't shout about it.

      In any event I'm not sure that measurable data is a relevant concept when it comes to faith. If you're trying to come up with an objective measure that suggests we scored 12 last month and now score 14 so we're moving forwards then I don't think you're ever going to find it. Since we are the ones who know the full details of our works and we are the ones who know the full details of things like how much time we spend in prayer and our motives for doing things, perhaps that's why Paul encouraged the Corinthians to "examine yourselves" to check whether they were in the faith.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

    8. #7
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      So, it can be measured.
      In truth, James helps us measure faith so that we can determine if a person is growing in faith or not.
      Or, you could simply listen and obey Matthew 7:1-2 and stop determining what is God's to determine.

      I would suggest that really the only reason someone would want to make a determination on someone else's faith or lack of it (a very personal matter between them and God) would have to do with a certain ugly competitiveness that the OP has shown since he arrived here.

    9. #8
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
      James talks a lot about works being evidence of faith. The trouble with trying to use that as a yardstick is firstly that a lot of people have works without any faith at all and secondly that a lot of people who do good works don't shout about it.

      In any event I'm not sure that measurable data is a relevant concept when it comes to faith. If you're trying to come up with an objective measure that suggests we scored 12 last month and now score 14 so we're moving forwards then I don't think you're ever going to find it. Since we are the ones who know the full details of our works and we are the ones who know the full details of things like how much time we spend in prayer and our motives for doing things, perhaps that's why Paul encouraged the Corinthians to "examine yourselves" to check whether they were in the faith.
      We can examine our selves. But an exam assumes there is a means of measurement.
      How can we know we are actually growing in our faith if all we are doing is going by our own opinion. Our opinion could be completely wrong.

    10. #9
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      Or, you could simply listen and obey Matthew 7:1-2 and stop determining what is God's to determine.

      I would suggest that really the only reason someone would want to make a determination on someone else's faith or lack of it (a very personal matter between them and God) would have to do with a certain ugly competitiveness that the OP has shown since he arrived here.
      Where do I say we make a determination on someone else's faith?
      What I ask is how we can measure if we actually are growing in faith.
      How might Matthew 7:1-2 tell us how to measure our growth in faith?

    11. #10
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Assessing ourselves with our God assigned measure of faith.
      https://www.desiringgod.org/messages...f-faith-part-1

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