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  • Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
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    Christian Advice Requested - Thread: Questions an atheist friend wanted to ask part 3.

    1. #11
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Not sure what test you are referring to. I'm referring to your technique of cherry picking what you like in the Bible and what you don't like.
      An atheist who is willing to investigate without bias or ignoring text because it doesn't fit their worldview is hard to find.
      LOL. This quote is too revealing to make the obvious observation that would no doubt land me in trouble for making it. Keep it up, good sir, lol.

    2. #12
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      LOL. This quote is too revealing to make the obvious observation that would no doubt land me in trouble for making it. Keep it up, good sir, lol.
      LOL, you are running away and changing topics. I know atheists that do the same thing.

    3. #13
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      tango is offline Bronze Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Not sure what test you are referring to. I'm referring to your technique of cherry picking what you like in the Bible and what you don't like.
      An atheist who is willing to investigate without bias or ignoring text because it doesn't fit their worldview is hard to find. Instead, they do what you do. They pick and choose only what they can accept as reasonable within their narrow box. This is why I started the thread asking how atheists and deists differ when it comes to any practical daily matters. I don't see what you do as any different to what an atheist does. Cherry pick and fit your preconceived worldview.
      Seriously?

      "The test" relates to the text at the end of Mark, where Jesus says "and these signs will accompany those who believe" and goes on to list signs such as handling venomous snakes and drinking poison without coming to any harm. Few people would accept a challenge to handle a pit viper, trusting in God to protect them from harm.

      There is a slight issue in that many scholars (at least according to my study Bible) do not accept that the last few verses of Mark's gospel were in the original manuscripts. Although it provides an "out" for people challenged to handle a pit viper to prove they believe what Jesus said it also raises another issue, namely that of which parts of the Bible can be considered inspired by God. If passages were not in the original text we have to ask when they were added, and whether or not the additions were inspired by God or not.

      There's also a world of difference between cherry-picking the parts of Scripture that we find convenient, and determining that we do not consider some part of Scripture to be inspired by God. On the one side we might decide to ignore verses about homosexuality because, you know, you gotta move with the times. On the other we might accept verses that are inconvenient to us while not accepting other sections because we hve issues with some aspect of them.

      From what I recall of what Strav has posted on the open board (Strav, please feel free to correct me if I misrepresent your views here), he does not accept that Paul was a genuine apostle. If his opinion is correct then at a stroke much of the New Testament is rendered irrelevant. This isn't necessarily about cherry-picking Scripture to suit a preconceived idea, it could just as easily be (as I believe it is in Strav's case) the result of thought and research. I personally disagree with Strav on this matter but I don't think it's even remotely fair to say he's just cherry-picking Scripture to suit his own ends.

      For what it's worth, if I wanted to pick and choose to create "the gospel according to tango" I'd be looking to get rid of the verses that talk about denying myself, taking up crosses, loving the unlovely and so on. Much of that cuts much closer to the mark than most of what Paul had to say.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

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    5. #14
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by tango View Post
      Seriously?

      "The test" relates to the text at the end of Mark, where Jesus says "and these signs will accompany those who believe" and goes on to list signs such as handling venomous snakes and drinking poison without coming to any harm. Few people would accept a challenge to handle a pit viper, trusting in God to protect them from harm.

      There is a slight issue in that many scholars (at least according to my study Bible) do not accept that the last few verses of Mark's gospel were in the original manuscripts. Although it provides an "out" for people challenged to handle a pit viper to prove they believe what Jesus said it also raises another issue, namely that of which parts of the Bible can be considered inspired by God. If passages were not in the original text we have to ask when they were added, and whether or not the additions were inspired by God or not.

      There's also a world of difference between cherry-picking the parts of Scripture that we find convenient, and determining that we do not consider some part of Scripture to be inspired by God. On the one side we might decide to ignore verses about homosexuality because, you know, you gotta move with the times. On the other we might accept verses that are inconvenient to us while not accepting other sections because we hve issues with some aspect of them.

      From what I recall of what Strav has posted on the open board (Strav, please feel free to correct me if I misrepresent your views here), he does not accept that Paul was a genuine apostle. If his opinion is correct then at a stroke much of the New Testament is rendered irrelevant. This isn't necessarily about cherry-picking Scripture to suit a preconceived idea, it could just as easily be (as I believe it is in Strav's case) the result of thought and research. I personally disagree with Strav on this matter but I don't think it's even remotely fair to say he's just cherry-picking Scripture to suit his own ends.

      For what it's worth, if I wanted to pick and choose to create "the gospel according to tango" I'd be looking to get rid of the verses that talk about denying myself, taking up crosses, loving the unlovely and so on. Much of that cuts much closer to the mark than most of what Paul had to say.
      You're referring to textual criticism. This is a method of tracing texts and codex along varying paths to see where additions may have taken place after the original writing. That is entirely different than throwing out any passage you don't particularly like.

    6. #15
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Heh...

      If I were you I'd save your breath, Tango. "Mennosota" is about as intellectually dishonest as they come. He'll simultaneously accuse someone of making an excuse not to believe a passage of the bible, then when cornered, he'll allow that maybe a passage shouldn't be there (or isn't original) based on textual criticism. I might add that anyone who doesn't believe a particular passage or authors is also subject to being guilty of whatever motive Mr "Mennosota" ascribes to that person.

      I've said it before and I'll say it again. Based on various factors, I believe this person is an already banned member - Alithis, who is simply trolling the board and being allowed to do so.

    7. #16
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      Heh...

      If I were you I'd save your breath, Tango. "Mennosota" is about as intellectually dishonest as they come. He'll simultaneously accuse someone of making an excuse not to believe a passage of the bible, then when cornered, he'll allow that maybe a passage shouldn't be there (or isn't original) based on textual criticism. I might add that anyone who doesn't believe a particular passage or authors is also subject to being guilty of whatever motive Mr "Mennosota" ascribes to that person.

      I've said it before and I'll say it again. Based on various factors, I believe this person is an already banned member - Alithis, who is simply trolling the board and being allowed to do so.
      What do you know about textual criticism and how it helps us know that the last few verses in Mark are added?
      An honest person will compare the documents available for the Bible and the documents for other works of antiquity. In so doing they will recognize that there is a no more credible source in all antiquity than the texts of the Bible.
      A dishonest person will throw out what he doesn't like and not allow the text to change his worldview.
      As to you comments on a banned poster. Joseph Goebbels said "Tell a lie big enough and long enough and you can get people to believe it." You are using his propaganda ploy in hopes that your lie might stick. I suspect the people who run this board know better than you do. But, knock yourself out.

    8. #17
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      tango is offline Bronze Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      You're referring to textual criticism. This is a method of tracing texts and codex along varying paths to see where additions may have taken place after the original writing. That is entirely different than throwing out any passage you don't particularly like.
      I'm referring to multiple things actually and, if you read my post, I think you'll find I drew the distinction between textual criticism, cherry-picking the verses we happen to like, and considering the theological merit of passages. You know, the difference between ignoring the bits that are inconvenient for us (like much of what Jesus had to say about, well, just about everything) and determining that Paul was not a genuine apostle.

      Since you don't seem to have picked up on much of what I wrote I'm struggling to conclude anything other than that you're not interested in discussion, merely to keep reiterating the same points while ignoring any counter points.

      Feel free to actually read my post with a view to understand what I'm saying. I won't hold my breath for fear of asphyxiation.
      "Do what thou will shall be the whole of the law" - Aleister Crowley

      "If you love me, obey my commandments" - Jesus Christ

      The Bible comes as a complete package. If we want to pluck verses out of context so make them mean what we want them to mean, if we want to ignore the passages that are inconvenient to our outlook, we should be intellectually honest enough to throw our Bibles in the trash and admit we are following Crowley and not Christ.

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