- Joined
- Jun 12, 2015
- Messages
- 13,677
- Gender
- Male
- Religious Affiliation
- Lutheran
- Political Affiliation
- Conservative
- Marital Status
- Married
- Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
- Yes
.
Reasons this Catholic Became a Protestant....
I must begin by saying this was by far the hardest thing I've ever done in life....
I have Catholic roots going back CENTURIES.... my family is largely Catholic (not all active, however)... I LOVED my parish and felt deep roots there... and I was LOVED by my church. I did (and still do) LOVE the liturgy, the sense of history and community, the spiritualism of Catholicism, the practical aspect given to faith..... I LOVED the very pro-life, pro-family emphasis..... I admired the boldness of the RCC in standing up for morality.... I still have a profound respect for that denomination, and when I am away for the weekend, I usually seek a Catholic parish for Sunday worship (LCMS churches aren't plentiful or always convenient). I instantly feel good and with brothers and sisters in Christ.
It must be noted too that I still agree with probably 95% of Catholicism. There are a FEW things I'm not totally on board with - but they weren't "deal brakers" (the Marian dogmas, for example) and less than a handful that I clearly rejected: The Dogma of the Church, the Docilic Submission of members, the Infallibility of the Roman Pontiff.... less so, Purgatory (I'm okay with the idea, just all the dogma around it) and Transubstantiation (a classic case of saying WAY too much actually endangering the truth).
But it was a move I felt was mandated.... by integrity and honesty. It was a case of LEAVING since I had no idea where I'd go, and it was EXCLUSIVELY for theological/doctrinal reasons.
1. The Dogma of the Church.
While the RCC retains a faint sense of the Church of Christ - the one, holy, catholic community of all believers - in truth, this is ENTIRELY buried by the dogmatic insistence of it itself that it itself IS the Church (at least in fullness). There is an OBSESSION with it itself by it itself - as a geopolitical, economic, earthly, institutional/denominational entity with the HQ in Rome. This whole dogma gets very radical. The RCC even speaks of itself as JESUS on earth. When IT speaks, Jesus Himself is speaking. I found this really very, very extreme focus on self and the claims of self for self to be quite unbiblical, unhistorical and frankly troubling... but all of Catholicism hinges on this: in a real sense, Catholicism stands or falls on this series of claims of it itself for it itself - and it is often central to its message. At times, I felt as if the RCC talked about itself more than God ("Catholic" this, "Catholic" that) and promoted itself more than Christ. While I have nothing against denominations per se... and regard the RCC as one of the best denominations.... I found its claims not only unacceptable but divisive, unbiblical and troubling. With SO much good in Catholicism, it seemed at times to get lost in the obsession with the denomination.
2. Epistemology.
The Catholic Catechism #87 says this, "Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles, 'He who hears you hears me," the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their [Catholic] pastors give them in different forms." Understand, this is the cornerstone of Catholicism. This is the reason for the Doctrine of the Church that it has... the reason for all the claims that when IT (alone) speaks ergo Jesus is, the reason for the INFALLIBILITY of their Pope, and the reason for their enormous repudiation of Sola Scriptura. There is a radical rejection of accountability of itself and a bold demand that all just swallow whatever is said, "with docility." This is DRILLED into CAtholics from birth. See CCC 85, 95... this is the cornerstone of the denomination. In part, I think this is simply a mindset of the middle ages but it is SO stressed. Yes, one my ask QUESTIONS but not hold the RCC accountable. And the issue is never "because it;s TRUE but because the RCC teachings it." I found this troubling.... especially after I spent some time studying the cults. And I found this obsession with power and submission odd. The RCC is clearly correct about SO much.... and all it's teachings are VERY well thought out (even where I disagree), I have a LOT of respect for Catholic scholarship. So WHY this extreme need to evade all accountability? I KNOW why the cults need it, but why the RCC ? BTW, many think Luther was excommunicated NOT because he said Jesus is the Savior (as the RCC claimed) but because he said the individual RC Denomination could err, thus undermining this point. I had to ask myself: Do I just swallow whole - with docility - WHATEVER the RCC says BECAUSE it says it? No, I don't. Thus, I'm not Catholic (my Deacon shouted) - or at least not faithful (as CCC 87, etc., etc., etc., etc. says). I share this from the "Handbook of the Catholic Church" page 137, "When someone asks where the Catholic finds the substance of his belief, the answer is this: From the living teaching Authority. This Authority consists of the Pope and the bishops under him at the time." Nothing about Jesus or God or Scripture or even Tradition.... and lest one confuse this with the Church, nope - this is a denomination. I had trouble with that. And I had to ask, am I therefore a Catholic? The answer seemed clear... and I needed to have the honesty, the integrity, the character to not lie just because I loved my parish and my family.
Finding a new church wasn't easy..... I had no desire to "reinvent the wheel" and I was NOT a revolutionary, I had no desire to "throw the baby out with the bathwater, there was MUCH (very much) I passionately believed and loved and would not abandoned. Truth - it was scary; I wasn't at all sure I'd find a church and that troubled me a LOT. I looked for a place where there was a deep sense of community, humility, accountability..... a church that was CHRIST centered rather than DENOMINATION centered... with the Cross is lifted high instead of the denomination... but also that was liturgical, sacramental, pro-life/pro-family, embracing of tradition and the whole people of God.... Some place where I would not have to LIE about docilicly swallowing a bunch of stuff that I actually didn't; were I could be honest. I found all that and more in Lutheranism.
My entrance there was originally because I saw it as a more original and simple form of Catholicism (LOTS of ex-Catholics are attracted to Lutheranism for the same reason, I would learn). BUT I soon learned the beautiful Gospel of Christ as Savior, the Theology of the Cross, the Law/Gospel distinction, and became clearly Lutheran. I have ex-Catholic friends who headed East to the Orthodox Church and those who headed to England to the Anglican Church - and those are fine faith communities, too. But I'm glad God lead me to Lutheranism....
In many ways, it's clear to see there's still some Catholic in me..... my spirituality is a blend of Catholicism (for example, Mary is precious to me, and I do the Sign of the Cross a lot, lol) BUT I've gained so much Lutheran spirituality - with it's rich, deep sense of humility and ministry.
MY journey..... Ain't saying it should be anyone else's. Yes, I'm aware that there are Protestants who join the RCC, too.
A blessed Lenten season to all...
- Josiah
.
Reasons this Catholic Became a Protestant....
I must begin by saying this was by far the hardest thing I've ever done in life....
I have Catholic roots going back CENTURIES.... my family is largely Catholic (not all active, however)... I LOVED my parish and felt deep roots there... and I was LOVED by my church. I did (and still do) LOVE the liturgy, the sense of history and community, the spiritualism of Catholicism, the practical aspect given to faith..... I LOVED the very pro-life, pro-family emphasis..... I admired the boldness of the RCC in standing up for morality.... I still have a profound respect for that denomination, and when I am away for the weekend, I usually seek a Catholic parish for Sunday worship (LCMS churches aren't plentiful or always convenient). I instantly feel good and with brothers and sisters in Christ.
It must be noted too that I still agree with probably 95% of Catholicism. There are a FEW things I'm not totally on board with - but they weren't "deal brakers" (the Marian dogmas, for example) and less than a handful that I clearly rejected: The Dogma of the Church, the Docilic Submission of members, the Infallibility of the Roman Pontiff.... less so, Purgatory (I'm okay with the idea, just all the dogma around it) and Transubstantiation (a classic case of saying WAY too much actually endangering the truth).
But it was a move I felt was mandated.... by integrity and honesty. It was a case of LEAVING since I had no idea where I'd go, and it was EXCLUSIVELY for theological/doctrinal reasons.
1. The Dogma of the Church.
While the RCC retains a faint sense of the Church of Christ - the one, holy, catholic community of all believers - in truth, this is ENTIRELY buried by the dogmatic insistence of it itself that it itself IS the Church (at least in fullness). There is an OBSESSION with it itself by it itself - as a geopolitical, economic, earthly, institutional/denominational entity with the HQ in Rome. This whole dogma gets very radical. The RCC even speaks of itself as JESUS on earth. When IT speaks, Jesus Himself is speaking. I found this really very, very extreme focus on self and the claims of self for self to be quite unbiblical, unhistorical and frankly troubling... but all of Catholicism hinges on this: in a real sense, Catholicism stands or falls on this series of claims of it itself for it itself - and it is often central to its message. At times, I felt as if the RCC talked about itself more than God ("Catholic" this, "Catholic" that) and promoted itself more than Christ. While I have nothing against denominations per se... and regard the RCC as one of the best denominations.... I found its claims not only unacceptable but divisive, unbiblical and troubling. With SO much good in Catholicism, it seemed at times to get lost in the obsession with the denomination.
2. Epistemology.
The Catholic Catechism #87 says this, "Mindful of Christ's words to his apostles, 'He who hears you hears me," the faithful receive with docility the teachings and directives that their [Catholic] pastors give them in different forms." Understand, this is the cornerstone of Catholicism. This is the reason for the Doctrine of the Church that it has... the reason for all the claims that when IT (alone) speaks ergo Jesus is, the reason for the INFALLIBILITY of their Pope, and the reason for their enormous repudiation of Sola Scriptura. There is a radical rejection of accountability of itself and a bold demand that all just swallow whatever is said, "with docility." This is DRILLED into CAtholics from birth. See CCC 85, 95... this is the cornerstone of the denomination. In part, I think this is simply a mindset of the middle ages but it is SO stressed. Yes, one my ask QUESTIONS but not hold the RCC accountable. And the issue is never "because it;s TRUE but because the RCC teachings it." I found this troubling.... especially after I spent some time studying the cults. And I found this obsession with power and submission odd. The RCC is clearly correct about SO much.... and all it's teachings are VERY well thought out (even where I disagree), I have a LOT of respect for Catholic scholarship. So WHY this extreme need to evade all accountability? I KNOW why the cults need it, but why the RCC ? BTW, many think Luther was excommunicated NOT because he said Jesus is the Savior (as the RCC claimed) but because he said the individual RC Denomination could err, thus undermining this point. I had to ask myself: Do I just swallow whole - with docility - WHATEVER the RCC says BECAUSE it says it? No, I don't. Thus, I'm not Catholic (my Deacon shouted) - or at least not faithful (as CCC 87, etc., etc., etc., etc. says). I share this from the "Handbook of the Catholic Church" page 137, "When someone asks where the Catholic finds the substance of his belief, the answer is this: From the living teaching Authority. This Authority consists of the Pope and the bishops under him at the time." Nothing about Jesus or God or Scripture or even Tradition.... and lest one confuse this with the Church, nope - this is a denomination. I had trouble with that. And I had to ask, am I therefore a Catholic? The answer seemed clear... and I needed to have the honesty, the integrity, the character to not lie just because I loved my parish and my family.
Finding a new church wasn't easy..... I had no desire to "reinvent the wheel" and I was NOT a revolutionary, I had no desire to "throw the baby out with the bathwater, there was MUCH (very much) I passionately believed and loved and would not abandoned. Truth - it was scary; I wasn't at all sure I'd find a church and that troubled me a LOT. I looked for a place where there was a deep sense of community, humility, accountability..... a church that was CHRIST centered rather than DENOMINATION centered... with the Cross is lifted high instead of the denomination... but also that was liturgical, sacramental, pro-life/pro-family, embracing of tradition and the whole people of God.... Some place where I would not have to LIE about docilicly swallowing a bunch of stuff that I actually didn't; were I could be honest. I found all that and more in Lutheranism.
My entrance there was originally because I saw it as a more original and simple form of Catholicism (LOTS of ex-Catholics are attracted to Lutheranism for the same reason, I would learn). BUT I soon learned the beautiful Gospel of Christ as Savior, the Theology of the Cross, the Law/Gospel distinction, and became clearly Lutheran. I have ex-Catholic friends who headed East to the Orthodox Church and those who headed to England to the Anglican Church - and those are fine faith communities, too. But I'm glad God lead me to Lutheranism....
In many ways, it's clear to see there's still some Catholic in me..... my spirituality is a blend of Catholicism (for example, Mary is precious to me, and I do the Sign of the Cross a lot, lol) BUT I've gained so much Lutheran spirituality - with it's rich, deep sense of humility and ministry.
MY journey..... Ain't saying it should be anyone else's. Yes, I'm aware that there are Protestants who join the RCC, too.
A blessed Lenten season to all...
- Josiah
.
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