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  • Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
    Results 11 to 20 of 33
    1. #11
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post




      2Peter3:9(KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      I have already addressed 2 Peter 3:9 elsewhere. In short, not one of the chosen will ever perish because God is not willing for them to perish. If you acknowledge to whom Peter is writing then the oft abused verse you quote is reconciled. Look at the context around 2 Peter 3 and it becomes very obvious that Peter is not addressing mankind universal.
      So God makes them repent as per the verse? LOL. What a micromanaging god you have. According to Saul/Paul he makes them all sinners, and according to your interpretation here, he makes some of them come to repentance. It's not a stretch to say these beliefs completely absolve any men from any kind of choice or responsibility.

    2. #12
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      So God makes them repent as per the verse? LOL. What a micromanaging god you have. According to Saul/Paul he makes them all sinners, and according to your interpretation here, he makes some of them come to repentance. It's not a stretch to say these beliefs completely absolve any men from any kind of choice or responsibility.
      To those who are perishing the gospel is foolishness, Strav.

    3. #13
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      To those who are perishing the gospel is foolishness, Strav.
      Way to side step dude, ROFL.

      You do realize, Mr Alithis, that that particular phrase could be used to back up any doctrinal position, and not just the one you are promoting? Or maybe you don't, lol.

    4. #14
      Cassia's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      1 Peter 2:8-9
      [8]And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, *** the rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they do not obey God’s word,
      and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.
      [9]But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.
      1 Thessalonians 3:3
      That no one would be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed for this.

      Meaning appointed to afflictions, God has allotted that portion to His people. Afflictions associated with believers in Christ.

      Same with the verse from the op. The Jews were appointed that lot according to prophesy because of the stumbling block of Christ that they could not overcome. Obviously that didn't apply to all Jews but it did/does apply to unbelievers.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Paul is misinterpreted by those into the letter of the law
      and correctly interpreted by those into the spirit of the law.
      ~~~~~

    5. #15
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      Way to side step dude, ROFL.

      You do realize, Mr Alithis, that that particular phrase could be used to back up any doctrinal position, and not just the one you are promoting? Or maybe you don't, lol.
      Again, irrelevant opinion on your part.
      What do you think Peter means in the passage I quoted?

    6. #16
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cassia View Post
      1 Thessalonians 3:3
      That no one would be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed for this.

      Meaning appointed to afflictions, God has allotted that portion to His people. Afflictions associated with believers in Christ.

      Same with the verse from the op. The Jews were appointed that lot according to prophesy because of the stumbling block of Christ that they could not overcome. Obviously that didn't apply to all Jews but it did/does apply to unbelievers.
      I know all too well about God ordaining both good and bad. He weaves dark threads as well as bright threads for our good and His glory.
      "I have learned to kiss the wave that tosses me onto the Rock of Ages." ~ CH Spurgeon

    7. #17
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      1 Peter 2:8-9
      [8]And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, *** the rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they do not obey God’s word,
      and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.
      [9]But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.
      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Again, irrelevant opinion on your part.
      What do you think Peter means in the passage I quoted?
      Well, taken at face value, and dismissing 2Peter 3:9 and also John 3:16 - and in line with what Saul/Paul preaches in places like Romans 9 (specifically Romans 9:19-20(KJV) and the verses surrounding it), then it means what it says. Herein lies the problem, one must dismiss 2Peter3:9 (or interpret it as you have) and also interpret John 3:16 to not mean what they say, but instead look at it through the lens of ultimate predestination where man has 0 say in the matter of his actions, his good deeds, his bad, or his repentance. For it is all God's will, according to this doctrine.

      If this is to be believed, I mean REALLY believed, then the believer of this verse and Saul/Paul's teaching in Romans 9 should leave every one who thus believes in the following position, and that is - If you blame another for perishing, you are casting Judgement on God, who has willed it so.

      I do not accept either the Petrine epistles, nor Saul/Paul so ultimate predestination and wondering if God is going to "mold me" into an object of wrath per His will doesn't even come up. The God I believe in shows no favoritism and DOES give man choice.

    8. #18
      Cassia's Avatar
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      I know all too well about God ordaining both good and bad. He weaves dark threads as well as bright threads for our good and His glory.
      "I have learned to kiss the wave that tosses me onto the Rock of Ages." ~ CH Spurgeon
      God ordained suffering thru a long painful death of self to become in His image and have dominion which is the meaning of priest and king. However there is neither w/o Christ as High Priest and King of Kings in ones life.
      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
      Paul is misinterpreted by those into the letter of the law
      and correctly interpreted by those into the spirit of the law.
      ~~~~~

    9. #19
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post
      Well, taken at face value, and dismissing 2Peter 3:9 and also John 3:16 - and in line with what Saul/Paul preaches in places like Romans 9 (specifically Romans 9:19-20(KJV) and the verses surrounding it), then it means what it says. Herein lies the problem, one must dismiss 2Peter3:9 (or interpret it as you have) and also interpret John 3:16 to not mean what they say, but instead look at it through the lens of ultimate predestination where man has 0 say in the matter of his actions, his good deeds, his bad, or his repentance. For it is all God's will, according to this doctrine.

      If this is to be believed, I mean REALLY believed, then the believer of this verse and Saul/Paul's teaching in Romans 9 should leave every one who thus believes in the following position, and that is - If you blame another for perishing, you are casting Judgement on God, who has willed it so.

      I do not accept either the Petrine epistles, nor Saul/Paul so ultimate predestination and wondering if God is going to "mold me" into an object of wrath per His will doesn't even come up. The God I believe in shows no favoritism and DOES give man choice.
      As a Deist, the God you believe in has left the building.
      I find it surprising that you care about the Bible at all, given your position that God never has engaged with His creation after setting it in motion.

    10. #20
      MennoSota is online now Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Cassia View Post
      God ordained suffering thru a long painful death of self to become in His image and have dominion which is the meaning of priest and king. However there is neither w/o Christ as High Priest and King of Kings in ones life.
      I'm sorry, I don't follow your train of thought in your post.

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