What does Peter mean by "the fate that was planned for them"

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
As a Deist, the God you believe in has left the building.
I find it surprising that you care about the Bible at all, given your position that God never has engaged with His creation after setting it in motion.

That is not my position. I clarified this in the thread you started on Deism, and you repeatedly ignoring it in favor of a strict definition of Deism shows that you are very capable and willing of being very dishonest - and if you think that no one else sees it, you are also very very foolish.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
That is not my position. I clarified this in the thread you started on Deism, and you repeatedly ignoring it in favor of a strict definition of Deism shows that you are very capable and willing of being very dishonest - and if you think that no one else sees it, you are also very very foolish.
So, you're not a Deist? What hybrid mongrel mix have you conjured?
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
So, you're not a Deist? What hybrid mongrel mix have you conjured?

You are asking me to explain what I have already explained (but you choose to ignore) in the thread on Deism you started. It should be quite clear I am not a strict Deist by the definition you provided in that thread, just as Thomas Jefferson couldn't have been a strict Deist if he esteemed any part of the bible at all, but yet he did, and so do I. Not in the same way, but nevertheless we are both Deists. Deism is a broad label that encompasses any who point to Creation as a witness of a Creator. Christians, Jews, Muslims are all Deists in this sense, if they truly believe Creation points to Creator.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
You are asking me to explain what I have already explained (but you choose to ignore) in the thread on Deism you started. It should be quite clear I am not a strict Deist by the definition you provided in that thread, just as Thomas Jefferson couldn't have been a strict Deist if he esteemed any part of the bible at all, but yet he did, and so do I. Not in the same way, but nevertheless we are both Deists. Deism is a broad label that encompasses any who point to Creation as a witness of a Creator. Christians, Jews, Muslims are all Deists in this sense, if they truly believe Creation points to Creator.
Did God speak through the Bible or is it merely men sharing their superstition?
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
Did God speak through the Bible or is it merely men sharing their superstition?

This Deist believes many parts of the bible are inspired, and some not. You really should go and honestly answer points I brought up in the thread you started, instead of letting this one get derailed. Points such as:

1) Were there Christians before the NT was canonized?
2) On what basis do you reject some non canonical books seeing as some of them are referenced in what you consider "God's Word"(that which excludes them)
3) Not all Christian denominations accept the same books, some include other books (Tobit, Maccabees, Enoch, etc). Can you give an answer to why this is beyond what you already have in the other thread ("they accept them because of their rebellious nature") as if Protestantism and the books it includes/excludes was the first brand of Christianity (which it was and is not)
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
This Deist believes many parts of the bible are inspired, and some not. You really should go and honestly answer points I brought up in the thread you started, instead of letting this one get derailed. Points such as:

1) Were there Christians before the NT was canonized?
2) On what basis do you reject some non canonical books seeing as some of them are referenced in what you consider "God's Word"(that which excludes them)
3) Not all Christian denominations accept the same books, some include other books (Tobit, Maccabees, Enoch, etc). Can you give an answer to why this is beyond what you already have in the other thread ("they accept them because of their rebellious nature")
If God doesn't engage with nature, how did he inspire the books you claim God inspired?
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
If God doesn't engage with nature, how did he inspire the books you claim God inspired?

Again, you are working from a strict definition of Deism that I don't adhere to. I have made this plain already, and again you keep ignoring it. Please see my responses in the thread you started.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
If God doesn't engage with nature, how did he inspire the books you claim God inspired?



Again, you are working from a strict definition of Deism that I don't adhere to. I have made this plain already, and again you keep ignoring it. Please see my responses in the thread you started.

You never answered my question...ever.
Or, quote your clear response from some alleged thread.
 

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
If God doesn't engage with nature, how did he inspire the books you claim God inspired?

Again, you are working from a strict definition of Deism that I don't adhere to. I have made this plain already, and again you keep ignoring it. Please see my responses in the thread you started.

You never answered my question...ever.
Or, quote your clear response from some alleged thread.

[staff edit] The very first quote from you I have included in this post (if God doesn't engage with Nature...full stop) is not a position I take. To you, Deism is black or white depending on the definition you provided. As you refuse to accept any other definition then you will continue to make the claim I didn't answer your question.

Again, Thomas Jefferson was a famous Deist, and is recognized as so by Deists. If he took the strict position you keep claiming is the definition of Deism, then he wouldn't have bothered to esteem the words of Christ, for if the strict definition applied to him, then Christ wouldn't have been inspired and there would be no need to quote Christ's words at all.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
[staff edit]The very first quote from you I have included in this post (if God doesn't engage with Nature...full stop) is not a position I take. To you, Deism is black or white depending on the definition you provided. As you refuse to accept any other definition then you will continue to make the claim I didn't answer your question.

Again, Thomas Jefferson was a famous Deist, and is recognized as so by Deists. If he took the strict position you keep claiming is the definition of Deism, then he wouldn't have bothered to esteem the words of Christ, for if the strict definition applied to him, then Christ wouldn't have been inspired and there would be no need to quote Christ's words at all.
How did God inspire the authors you claim He inspired? How did God do this if He doesn't interact with His creation?
These are simple question that you can answer directly. Why don't you answer my simple questions?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Stravinsk

Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
Joined
Jan 4, 2016
Messages
4,485
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Deist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Widow/Widower
How did God inspire the authors you claim He inspired? How did God do this if He doesn't interact with His creation?
These are simple question that you can answer directly. Why don't you answer my simple questions?

[staff edit] I have already stated many many times (in the other thread as well as this one), that I don't accept the strict definition you provided. And yet, you keep referring to it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 24, 2017
Messages
7,102
Age
53
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Christian
Political Affiliation
Moderate
Marital Status
Married
How did God inspire the authors you claim He inspired? How did God do this if He doesn't interact with His creation?
These are simple question that you can answer directly. Why don't you answer my simple questions?
[staff edit] I have already stated many many times (in the other thread as well as this one), that I don't accept the strict definition you provided. And yet, you keep referring to it.
Can you answer my questions please?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

atpollard

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 6, 2017
Messages
2,573
Location
Florida
Gender
Male
Religious Affiliation
Baptist
Political Affiliation
Conservative
Marital Status
Married
Acceptance of the Trinity & Nicene Creed
Yes
I take two things from the lack of answers provided by "Chistians" at the CH.
1) They agree with the statement that certain people meet a fate that was planned for them, which is that they will stumble and fall due to unbelief. They also agree that others are chosen to be priests, to be a nation and to live in the light.
2) They don't agree with #1, but they cannot come up with anything to refute God's word so they stay silent.

3) I don't generally read the "Questions for Christians" section.

... but as long as I am here.

1 Peter 2:8 NASB and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed [G5087].


The word that is causing people grief is "appointed " or in Greek "tithēmi" [G5087].

STRONGS NT 5087: τίθημι: to make one one's own, as τινα φίλον to make one a friend, see Passow, p. 1893a; (Liddell and Scott, under the word, B. I.)). τιθέναι τινα εἰς τί, to appoint one to (destine one to be) anything, passive, 1 Peter 2:8; [Thayer's Greek Lexicon]

Note that it is a 'passive' destiny in this particular use of the word (according to the Greek grammar). Thus the section of 1 Peter 2 quoted is saying nothing more than some will believe Jesus and some will not. To those who believe, He is destined to be a treasure. To those who do not believe, Jesus is destined to be a stumbling block. Both the believer and the unbeliever have found their destiny.


It seems to me that we will need to look elsewhere for a 'smoking gun' verse that God predestines some to hell. This is not such a verse. However, I see in this chapter an assurance that there are no people who 'slip through the cracks'. Those who are destined to believe, will believe and those who are destined to reject Christ, will reject Him. No human effort will change what God has foreknown will be.

So check it out in the larger context ...

1 Peter 2:1-12 NASB
1 Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander, 2 like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation, 3 if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.

4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5 you also, as living stones, [fn]are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For this is contained in Scripture:

“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”

7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,

“THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,”

8 and,

“A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”;

for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul. 12 Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.


God Bless.
 
Top Bottom