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    1. #1
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      What does Peter mean by "the fate that was planned for them"

      1 Peter 2:8-9
      [8]And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, *** the rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they do not obey God’s word,
      and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.
      [9]But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.

    2. #2
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Amazing silence from "Christians" on this subject. It's almost as if no one dares to address the elephant in the room.

    3. #3
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Still no responses from "Christians." This is fascinating.

    4. #4
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      1 Peter 2:8-9
      [8]And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, *** the rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they do not obey God’s word,
      and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.
      [9]But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.
      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Amazing silence from "Christians" on this subject. It's almost as if no one dares to address the elephant in the room.
      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      Still no responses from "Christians." This is fascinating.
      I think it means/you mean I'm...




    5. #5
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Strav, you are the king of the red herrings. Excellent post. However, this is the "Ask a Christian" forum...

    6. #6
      ImaginaryDay2's Avatar
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      Actually, I think Strav summed it up nicely. Peter, suggesting that those who don't obey God's word (such as you - Menno - suggested in another thread may apply to Strav), will "meet the fate that was planned (predestined?) for them" (e.g. "Heretic Toast"). Does that sum up Peter's view? Or do you have a different take?

      Disclaimer - My use of the word 'predestined' does not imply an endorsement on my part of a Calvinist view of predestination, but was offered here to clarify the OP's take on the passage.
      I Hope This HelpsTM

    7. #7
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryDay2 View Post
      Actually, I think Strav summed it up nicely. Peter, suggesting that those who don't obey God's word (such as you - Menno - suggested in another thread may apply to Strav), will "meet the fate that was planned (predestined?) for them" (e.g. "Heretic Toast"). Does that sum up Peter's view? Or do you have a different take?

      Disclaimer - My use of the word 'predestined' does not imply an endorsement on my part of a Calvinist view of predestination, but was offered here to clarify the OP's take on the passage.
      What does the text say?
      1) "He is the stone that makes people stumble."
      Who is "He"? The answer is shown in the preceding verse. Jesus is the cornerstone.
      2) "He is the rock (Jesus told Peter, when Peter was given his name, that Jesus was THE ROCK, but Peter was a little rock Jesus would use to build His church.) that makes them fall."
      Who is "them?"Verse 7 tells us. The ones who reject Jesus are the ones which Jesus makes them fall.
      3) "They stumble (not fall) because they do not obey God’s word."
      Notice there is no comment about denominational tradition. They may obey tradition, but they don't obey what God says.
      4) "They meet the fate that was planned for them."
      Jesus makes them stumble. Jesus makes them fall. Because they do not obey God.
      Thus..."they meet the fate that was planned for them."
      Question: Was the fate planned before they stumbled and fell due to obedience?
      Question: Can a human being be responsible for not obeying God's word if God causes them to stumble and fall and thus meet their fate?

      1 Peter 2:8-9

      [8]And, “He is the stone that makes people stumble, the rock that makes them fall.”They stumble because they do not obey God’s word, and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.

      [9]But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests, a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.
      Notice the contrast in verse 9.
      "But"
      "You are not like that."
      Who is Peter referring to? Some people want to make the "you" universal in Peter's writing, but here Peter tells us who the "you" is. He calls them "chosen people," "royal priests," "a holy nation," "God's very own possession."
      "As a result"
      A result of what? Answer: Being chosen.
      "You can show others the goodness of God."
      We can show them. We cannot prevent them from stumbling or falling and meeting their fate.
      "For He called you out of the darkness into His wonderful light."
      Again, the you is referring to the chosen. The chosen were in darkness, but God called the chosen into His "wonderful" light. It's not just light. It's WONDERFUL light.
      This is what I observe.

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    9. #8
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      I take two things from the lack of answers provided by "Chistians" at the CH.
      1) They agree with the statement that certain people meet a fate that was planned for them, which is that they will stumble and fall due to unbelief. They also agree that others are chosen to be priests, to be a nation and to live in the light.
      2) They don't agree with #1, but they cannot come up with anything to refute God's word so they stay silent.

    10. #9
      Stravinsk is offline Composer and Artist on Flat Earth
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      Quote Originally Posted by MennoSota View Post
      I take two things from the lack of answers provided by "Chistians" at the CH.
      1) They agree with the statement that certain people meet a fate that was planned for them, which is that they will stumble and fall due to unbelief. They also agree that others are chosen to be priests, to be a nation and to live in the light.
      2) They don't agree with #1, but they cannot come up with anything to refute God's word so they stay silent.


      If the first summary you have provided is true, then I'm curious how you reconcile it with this verse, also from a Petrine epistle:

      2Peter3:9(KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

      There is a clear contradiction here between what "the Lord wants" and what "the Lord plans" which is the emphasis of your point (and which is also an emphasis of Saul/Paul in some of his teachings)


      I'm in camp #2, I don't agree with it, and I also do not accept the Petrine epistles (1st and 2nd Peter) - for the simple reason I don't believe they were written by him.

    11. #10
      MennoSota is offline Expert Member
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      Quote Originally Posted by Stravinsk View Post


      If the first summary you have provided is true, then I'm curious how you reconcile it with this verse, also from a Petrine epistle:

      2Peter3:9(KJV) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

      There is a clear contradiction here between what "the Lord wants" and what "the Lord plans" which is the emphasis of your point (and which is also an emphasis of Saul/Paul in some of his teachings)


      I'm in camp #2, I don't agree with it, and I also do not accept the Petrine epistles (1st and 2nd Peter) - for the simple reason I don't believe they were written by him.
      I have already addressed 2 Peter 3:9 elsewhere. In short, not one of the chosen will ever perish because God is not willing for them to perish. If you acknowledge to whom Peter is writing then the oft abused verse you quote is reconciled. Look at the context around 2 Peter 3 and it becomes very obvious that Peter is not addressing mankind universal.
      As to what you accept or don't accept...that is irrelevant to me.

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